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I'm the CTO of Whisper. This is really bad reporting. A few notes: 1. we use a legacy maxmind geoip database so we can put the whisper in a general location. t
by rubyrescue 12y ago
I'm the CTO of Whisper. This is really bad reporting. A few notes:
1. we use a legacy maxmind geoip database so we can put the whisper in a general location. that is so inaccurate as to be laughable. for instance, my current IP using our service says "USA", though I'm in Venice, CA. This is hardly a privacy violation, and it's really important for a bunch of reasons:
a) The whisper needs to actually appear in the app, and it won't appear without some general location. The % of all Whispers which are tagged as somewhere in the middle of Kansas because we don't really know where they are (but we know they are in the US) is very high. This is not a scandal.
b) We want to know where a user is in a general sense for things like tracking timezone so when we send pushes we know not to send pushes at 3 in the morning. you'd be surprised how often device timezone may not always match with physical location.
c) We use general location to determine things users may be interested in. folks who post in lower manhattan may see different results than people in College Station, TX, over time.
d) We have a lot of anti-spam technology, and what IP you posted from, and what country that IP is in, is important. I can't elaborate on this but it's incredibly logical why we would use that information for things like keeping the app from filling with spammy garbage.
e) We throw away the IP you used to create the whisper after a brief period of time.
2. We've been working with researchers at a local university to ensure the anonymity around location was such that they couldn't determine groups of whispers from the same user. They contributed to our randomization algorithms and provided suggestions around security.
3. We fuzz location even more than this on write and on reads. We randomize it based on the observer who asks for the location, and we randomize it BEFORE WE SAVE IT TO OUR DATABASE. In other words, we don't actually know where the user was once the whisper is saved, and we can't even tell later.
4. The guardian's reporting that we changed our terms of service in response to the article is beyond silly. I am happy to show a screenshot of the email chain between myself and our lawyers back in July. The entire point of updating the TOS was to make it clearer and easier to read, not to protect ourselves or give ourselves more rights to user data. It takes MONTHS to get things like TOS write for an app like Whisper, and we take it seriously.
5. Edited to add... We just don't have any personally identifiable information. Not name, email, phone number, etc. I can't tell you who a user is without them posting their actual personal information, and in that case, it would be a violation of our terms of service.
- denzil_correa 12y ago> 2. We've been working with researchers at a local university to ensure the anonymity around location was such that they couldn't determine groups of whispers from the same user. They contributed to our randomization algorithms and provided suggestions around security. Recently, there was a paper by researchers at UCSB on anonymity on Whisper (Page 10, Section 7). I must say that Whisper seems to have mitigated the attack presented in the paper. https://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~ravenben/publications/pdf/whisper-imc14.pdf https://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~ravenben/publications/pdf/whisper-i...
- moxie 12y agoBased on your own comments here, it sounds like the reporting is entirely accurate. You're attempting to justify why you're tracking your users, but you're still tracking them. You've highlighted many of the hard problems in this space: how do you achieve anonymity and unlinkability while doing things like IP hiding, spam filtering, and relevance matching? The issue is that you haven't solved the problems, and are instead suggesting you should get a pass because the problems are hard. It seems simple to me: if you haven't designed something that gives you truly unlinkable anonymity, don't claim to provide it. If you have to track your users to make your app work, don't claim not to track your users. There are projects like Tor that are approaching these types of problems seriously, but apps like Whisper or Secret end up poisoning the well and confusing users. There's a huge difference between "can't" track and "won't" track. Right now you're claiming "can't," but it sounds like you're squarely in the "won't" category of having your servers "avert their eyes." I think this understandably makes people uneasy, particularly given the data mining direction it sounds like the company is headed.
- superuser2 12y ago100% of network services "track" their users' IP addresses. Every website that is accessible outside of Tor can see its users' IPs. That is the nature of TCP/IP. You act like this is a deliberate violation of privacy. I don't know what to say, except that you're wrong. If you ask a question, you consent to be "tracked" to the extent necessary to deliver an answer to you. On the internet, that means IP address.