4 ms·

As someone with a Macedonian background, what bothers me most is my father's reaction to this news when I told him about it. I am legitimately excited about thi

by jogzden 12y ago

As someone with a Macedonian background, what bothers me most is my father's reaction to this news when I told him about it. I am legitimately excited about this news, and all he could really think of was if the Greeks would claim Philip II as theirs and began ranting about the whole Alexander being Macedonian/Greek debate. I understand his justification for thinking that way, but it's just sad that the Macedonians and Greeks won't be getting excited about the discovery, but will instead be using it to fuel the existing hatred between the countries.

user3141592653 12y ago
Lets not turn this into a Greek vs Macedonian thing. Anyone that can read and think has already figured that out by now...
- jogzden 12y ago
  Oh, I am not by any means trying to turn the news into something. I am merely expressing my distaste with nationalism and what it can do to people.
kilon 12y ago
You exaggerate , Greeks dont hate you. Some angry, some frustrated , some don't care. As a Greek myself, I don't like to say to other countries what they should name themselves but there is an entire area in Greece already that is called Macedonia that is even more ancient than Alexander himself. So at best case scenario the name is at least an inconvenience for us. Its like France deciding to name itself London, how you think English people would feel ?
- throwaway344 12y ago
  The fact remains that much of the world does have just the very same issue of different places being named the same. Texas has a town called Paris, France has a somewhat larger and more amount town also called Paris. There's a La Paz, Mexico and a La Paz, Bolivia too. From my perspective, nowhere else is the duplication of names quite so big a deal as it is in the context of Macedonia.
  - mjn 12y ago
    The argument is more caused by disputes over history than by the name duplication (though there is some dumb arguing over just the name). What mostly inflames Greek opinion is the other set of claims that goes along with the name: for example, a number of historians from the Republic of Macedonia claim that the ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic language (rather than a Greek dialect), and that the people of the modern Republic of Macedonia are the modern cultural descendants of the ancient Macedonians. Whereas Greeks see the ancient Macedonians as part of their own ancient history, like the Ionians and Athenians and Minoans and other Greek peoples. Also a particularly important part of it due Macedonia's role in instigating the Hellenistic age. Third-party historians generally side with the Greek view (Slavic migration to the Balkans far postdates the ancient Macedonians). But the use of the name by the Republic of Macedonia, especially together with its use of ancient Macedonian symbols, and unorthodox historical claims made by some of its leading figures, does seem to have confused some laypeople, which annoys Greeks, who feel some of their history is being appropriated. Purely geographically speaking, just about anyone vaguely in the region does have a claim to be in Macedonia, because it's been the name of a number of territories over the years [1]. The real dispute is more over cultural legacy than whether Skopje or Thessaloniki are more geographically "in" Macedonia. [1] A decent concise summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia
  - kilon 12y ago
    However what you choose to forget is that in USA there is also a town called Athens , actually I think there are two, and yet we Greeks have no issue with that either , why ? In any case I agree with user comment this is not the topic of the thread I will respect that and I will let people who can think for themselves and can do their own thorough research draw their own conclusions on the matter. Frankly the one thing that bothered me the most was the word "hate".
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- hanoz 12y ago
  Perhaps they might retaliate in kind by naming themselves after a French region, say Brittany.
- dghughes 12y ago
  The USA calling itself America and claiming only its citizens can be called Americans, when really all people from Canada to southern Argentina are Americans. Europeans live on the continent of Europe, Africans in Africa, Asians in Asia etc. People counter with Canada, Mexico etc. are in North America and South America so why isn't the USA the USNA?
  - mikhailfranco 12y ago
    The USA contains the name of the continent, which is unique in being named after a person, and he was from a different continent. There are three (other) countries named after people: Bolivia, Colombia and the Philippines. The capital of the USA is named after a US president, and so is the capital of Liberia. Venezuela is named after a city in another country. California is named after a fictional island with a name inspired by a muslim ruler! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_California
  - cafard 12y ago
    Because the USA incorporated 'America' into its name before anyone else did? Because the US Naval Academy has already claimed USNA? Because custom tends to outweigh pedantry?
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      In fact, did ANYBODY else use 'America' in their name? Really, the USA is not so much a name as a description. Its maybe the only country on two continents that fits that description. So its a really good name.
  - vacri 12y ago
    why isn't the USA the USNA Even if you include the southern continent, there's no similar collection-of-states, so the USA is just as accurate as the USNA.
    - pavlov 12y ago
      There are actually two other large federal republics on the same continent. One is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, "United Mexican States", and the other is República Federativa do Brasil, "Federative Republic of Brazil".
StavrosK 12y ago
As a Macedonian (the Greek kind), your father isn't that wrong. The government is already trying to use the tomb of Amphipolis for that, even contrary to scientific evidence. I don't think anyone will even dispute that ancient Macedonia was this entire region, it stands to reason that tombs would be found all over the place. The claims over heritage/language/etc are rather different from that.
contingencies 12y ago
Nationalism is an infantile disease: the measles of mankind. - Einstein

by jogzden 12y ago

user3141592653 12y ago

Lets not turn this into a Greek vs Macedonian thing. Anyone that can read and think has already figured that out by now...

jogzden 12y ago
Oh, I am not by any means trying to turn the news into something. I am merely expressing my distaste with nationalism and what it can do to people.

kilon 12y ago

You exaggerate , Greeks dont hate you. Some angry, some frustrated , some don't care. As a Greek myself, I don't like to say to other countries what they should name themselves but there is an entire area in Greece already that is called Macedonia that is even more ancient than Alexander himself. So at best case scenario the name is at least an inconvenience for us. Its like France deciding to name itself London, how you think English people would feel ?

throwaway344 12y ago
The fact remains that much of the world does have just the very same issue of different places being named the same. Texas has a town called Paris, France has a somewhat larger and more amount town also called Paris. There's a La Paz, Mexico and a La Paz, Bolivia too. From my perspective, nowhere else is the duplication of names quite so big a deal as it is in the context of Macedonia.
- mjn 12y ago
  The argument is more caused by disputes over history than by the name duplication (though there is some dumb arguing over just the name). What mostly inflames Greek opinion is the other set of claims that goes along with the name: for example, a number of historians from the Republic of Macedonia claim that the ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic language (rather than a Greek dialect), and that the people of the modern Republic of Macedonia are the modern cultural descendants of the ancient Macedonians. Whereas Greeks see the ancient Macedonians as part of their own ancient history, like the Ionians and Athenians and Minoans and other Greek peoples. Also a particularly important part of it due Macedonia's role in instigating the Hellenistic age. Third-party historians generally side with the Greek view (Slavic migration to the Balkans far postdates the ancient Macedonians). But the use of the name by the Republic of Macedonia, especially together with its use of ancient Macedonian symbols, and unorthodox historical claims made by some of its leading figures, does seem to have confused some laypeople, which annoys Greeks, who feel some of their history is being appropriated. Purely geographically speaking, just about anyone vaguely in the region does have a claim to be in Macedonia, because it's been the name of a number of territories over the years [1]. The real dispute is more over cultural legacy than whether Skopje or Thessaloniki are more geographically "in" Macedonia. [1] A decent concise summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia
- kilon 12y ago
  However what you choose to forget is that in USA there is also a town called Athens , actually I think there are two, and yet we Greeks have no issue with that either , why ? In any case I agree with user comment this is not the topic of the thread I will respect that and I will let people who can think for themselves and can do their own thorough research draw their own conclusions on the matter. Frankly the one thing that bothered me the most was the word "hate".
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
hanoz 12y ago
Perhaps they might retaliate in kind by naming themselves after a French region, say Brittany.
dghughes 12y ago
The USA calling itself America and claiming only its citizens can be called Americans, when really all people from Canada to southern Argentina are Americans. Europeans live on the continent of Europe, Africans in Africa, Asians in Asia etc. People counter with Canada, Mexico etc. are in North America and South America so why isn't the USA the USNA?
- mikhailfranco 12y ago
  The USA contains the name of the continent, which is unique in being named after a person, and he was from a different continent. There are three (other) countries named after people: Bolivia, Colombia and the Philippines. The capital of the USA is named after a US president, and so is the capital of Liberia. Venezuela is named after a city in another country. California is named after a fictional island with a name inspired by a muslim ruler! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_California
- cafard 12y ago
  Because the USA incorporated 'America' into its name before anyone else did? Because the US Naval Academy has already claimed USNA? Because custom tends to outweigh pedantry?
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    In fact, did ANYBODY else use 'America' in their name? Really, the USA is not so much a name as a description. Its maybe the only country on two continents that fits that description. So its a really good name.
- vacri 12y ago
  why isn't the USA the USNA Even if you include the southern continent, there's no similar collection-of-states, so the USA is just as accurate as the USNA.
  - pavlov 12y ago
    There are actually two other large federal republics on the same continent. One is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, "United Mexican States", and the other is República Federativa do Brasil, "Federative Republic of Brazil".

StavrosK 12y ago

As a Macedonian (the Greek kind), your father isn't that wrong. The government is already trying to use the tomb of Amphipolis for that, even contrary to scientific evidence. I don't think anyone will even dispute that ancient Macedonia was this entire region, it stands to reason that tombs would be found all over the place. The claims over heritage/language/etc are rather different from that.

contingencies 12y ago

Nationalism is an infantile disease: the measles of mankind. - Einstein