5 ms·

"Academic and government positions require you to work in a bureaucratic setting, maybe for the rest of your life. In industry, you can be a lone wolf if you wa

by cli 12y ago

"Academic and government positions require you to work in a bureaucratic setting, maybe for the rest of your life. In industry, you can be a lone wolf if you want. In this sense, there is greater freedom in industry." Can someone please elaborate on the industry part of this quote?

joshvm 12y ago
Bureaucracy is directly dependent on the size of the business. Universities are amongst the largest businesses around, hence the nonsense you have to go through to get anything done. On the other hand, you do have backup if something goes wrong which you may not be afforded in a smaller company. It's the kind of thing you'll despise until you actually need to exercise your rights. My experience, as a PhD student with industrial sponsorship. Big company: - stable job - stable pay - lots of bureaucracy - some freedom, but if you're a small cog in a big machine your efforts may go unseen - potential to become a drone - likely to be standard 9-5 hours - usually good benefits e.g. insurance, pension. - freedom is having a life outside the office - routine can be rewarding and many people really require it Academia: - stable job after 10-20 years - pay is meh until you get tenure. £30k nominal, up to £60k for a professorship - lots of bureaucracy (LOTS) - potential for institutionalisation - limited freedom in choosing where your research goes, provided you're in a position of power in your group (otherwise forget it) - hours are flexible within reason, potential for travel if your research is hot. - researchers are petty as hell - scientifically rewarding. You probably won't change the world in your lifetime, but that's OK because you love what you do Note that while it looks like I've made academia sound arduous, that last fact makes up for it for many, many people. Small company: - stable job if the company is low risk - little bureaucracy - pay strongly linked to company performance - high responsibility - working hours depends on who you work for (tech industry is normally good here) - benefits can be amazing - freedom is the potential to really affect the company's direction - can be very rewarding because of the responsibility Industry can provide the ultimate freedom - working for yourself.
- dmpk2k 12y ago
  pay is meh until you get tenure. More like if you get tenure, which is increasingly rare nowadays. I think it's a poor gamble.
  - joshvm 12y ago
    I think that's often overlooked. Simply going by the numbers, it's impossible for all PhD students to eventually get tenure. Plenty of people end up being fairly well paid research scientists until jobs become available. Tenure is definitely a job of dead man's shoes.
- _delirium 12y ago
  pay is meh until you get tenure. £30k nominal, up to £60k for a professorship Starting salaries are a lot higher than £30k (US$50k) for CS faculty in many countries. Here in Denmark the typical starting salary is around £45k (US$70K), and you can get tenure w/ a raise after 3-4 years. And at research institutions in the US, the typical starting salary is around £50-60k (US$80-100k). You can still make more in industry, but the pay isn't £30k-level bad.

by cli 12y ago

joshvm 12y ago

Bureaucracy is directly dependent on the size of the business. Universities are amongst the largest businesses around, hence the nonsense you have to go through to get anything done. On the other hand, you do have backup if something goes wrong which you may not be afforded in a smaller company. It's the kind of thing you'll despise until you actually need to exercise your rights. My experience, as a PhD student with industrial sponsorship. Big company: - stable job - stable pay - lots of bureaucracy - some freedom, but if you're a small cog in a big machine your efforts may go unseen - potential to become a drone - likely to be standard 9-5 hours - usually good benefits e.g. insurance, pension. - freedom is having a life outside the office - routine can be rewarding and many people really require it Academia: - stable job after 10-20 years - pay is meh until you get tenure. £30k nominal, up to £60k for a professorship - lots of bureaucracy (LOTS) - potential for institutionalisation - limited freedom in choosing where your research goes, provided you're in a position of power in your group (otherwise forget it) - hours are flexible within reason, potential for travel if your research is hot. - researchers are petty as hell - scientifically rewarding. You probably won't change the world in your lifetime, but that's OK because you love what you do Note that while it looks like I've made academia sound arduous, that last fact makes up for it for many, many people. Small company: - stable job if the company is low risk - little bureaucracy - pay strongly linked to company performance - high responsibility - working hours depends on who you work for (tech industry is normally good here) - benefits can be amazing - freedom is the potential to really affect the company's direction - can be very rewarding because of the responsibility Industry can provide the ultimate freedom - working for yourself.

dmpk2k 12y ago
pay is meh until you get tenure. More like if you get tenure, which is increasingly rare nowadays. I think it's a poor gamble.
- joshvm 12y ago
  I think that's often overlooked. Simply going by the numbers, it's impossible for all PhD students to eventually get tenure. Plenty of people end up being fairly well paid research scientists until jobs become available. Tenure is definitely a job of dead man's shoes.
_delirium 12y ago
pay is meh until you get tenure. £30k nominal, up to £60k for a professorship Starting salaries are a lot higher than £30k (US$50k) for CS faculty in many countries. Here in Denmark the typical starting salary is around £45k (US$70K), and you can get tenure w/ a raise after 3-4 years. And at research institutions in the US, the typical starting salary is around £50-60k (US$80-100k). You can still make more in industry, but the pay isn't £30k-level bad.