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This was propaganda from a karma 9 account. I'll touch some points but I think that there are too many fanatics on this subject, it doesn't work on HN. (I got

This was propaganda from a karma 9 account. I'll touch some points but I think that there are too many fanatics on this subject, it doesn't work on HN. (I got a couple of comments first upvoted and then down voted a bunch of points, so I guess this will go the same way.) >>In Israel, only 7% of the land was owned by Jews when the state of Israel was created. More Jews were thrown out of the Muslim countries than Palestinians fled. (And not in a burning civil war, but from cold blooded racism.) The possessions stolen from those Jews included land area multiple times the size of Israel. Most of those Jews fled to Israel. So how about a reasonable view -- do a swap and call it even? The Palestinians get some of the resources stolen by their allied Muslim countries? Why is that bad? >>Jews, and Christians were not persecuted when that land was under Muslim rule. This is in fact true now... Since most every Jew were thrown out of the Muslim world because of what some other Jews did, there are none to persecute.. Worth reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world#Modern_examples http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world#... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism#Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism#Mohammad... It is easy to find more. >> IDF soldiers wear t-shirts with a picture of a pregnant woman in cross-hairs [...] You demonise a country for what some individuals do. What do you then say about about officially sanctioned racist hatred, copied from the Nazis?! Like the Arab countries... In state controlled media. The previous Egyptian president spoke about the importance of teaching your children to hate Jews... And so on. So how many hundreds of times worse is that? You're not a dishonest hypocrite with different standards for different sides, are you? >> [Latest Gaza war] - Started by Hamas, which also gave murderers of three children a hero status. (Note that some Israelis did a revenge murder -- and will end up in jail.) - Shooting from civilian areas -- at civilians. (There are empty areas in Gaza: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4580/gaza-population-density http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4580/gaza-population-densi... ) - http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/09/hamas-quietly-admits-it-fired-rockets-from-civilian-areas/380149/ http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/09/hamas-quietly-admits-i... - Ah... No. Waste of time and damaging HN. :-( (Also worth mentioning is how the Muslim world kept the Palestinians in camps and refused to integrate them for generations. Just to keep the hatred going. Smart, since most every other land loss from WWII is forgotten. Just a pity they destroyed so many lives to do it. Arguably, much worse than anything the Israelis ever did to the Palestinians, even in your description...)

ggg999 12y ago
I don't see how you have countered anything that I have said. I think the actions of governments like Egypt's are horrible WRT the Palestinians too, but that was not the point of my post. I was responding to a racist anti-arab rant (that ended up being down-voted by the time I finished composing my response). Hasney Mubarak became an American/Israeli puppet. As for keeping the Palestinians in refugee camps, the Palestinians have a right of return. The U.N. recognized this right decades ago. The root cause of refugees is Israel's policy of ethnic cleansing (against international law). Look for references to the "red house", to find early plans for this ethnic cleansing dating back to the founding of Israel. As for land swap, it doesn't work that way, and I'm sure you realize this. One bullet two kills, was not a "few individuals". And, it was only one of many slogans of the same ilk the Israeli military wore to that slaughter. Current PM of Israel has not only said things like, "... put Palestinians on a diet." In the context of starving the civilian prisoners in the giant open air prison that is Gaza (illegal collective punishment), but also was instrumental in multiple massacres of Palestinians. How is a speech worse than actual mass murder? Read transcripts of the Knesset (Israeli legislature) to see the attacks on the non-Jewish minority-- including death threats, rape threats, etc. (yes, stated openly in the official meetings). Started by Hamas is usually a fiction. In almost every case, go back one or two weeks more than the Israeli propaganda, and you will see Israeli aggression, Israel breaking a cease fire, Israel assassinating a politician, Israel killing a fisherman/farmer/child etc. That said, there are no innocents among those active in a battle, but the balance of power, balance of aggression, and balance of casualties is such that Israel carries the vast majority of the blame. The ratio of civilian deaths prove who is the aggressor. It is unfortunate that Briton essentially wanted a white-ish colony in the Middle East. It is sad that most of Europe were only too happy to be rid of their Jews. It is also terrible how Jews, Romani, disabled, gays, etc. suffered under the Nazis. But, it is not fair that the indigenous Arabs of Palestine suffer for it. "Copied from the Nazis" hmmmmm... Gaza =~ Warsaw ghetto, Organ harvesting for benefit of Jews, etc. I see your point, but it is probably not the point you meant to make. As for antisemitism, everything is antisemitism (or self hating) in regards to criticism of Israel. Yet, antisemitism is OK when practiced by an Israeli-- the Arabs subject to oppression and massacres by Israelis _are_ Semitic people. Israel is an imperialist enterprise, and yes 7% was bought by Jews, I said that in my original post, but the rest was stolen. It is a terrible situation that has only a couple outcomes. Some radical Jews want to see Israel's borders expanded to the biblical boarders to, in their minds, allow the return of the Messiah, some radical Christians want to support those radical Jews in the hopes that WWIII breaks out centered in Israel, in their minds, allowing the return of their Jesus, some radical Muslims want the invaders gone no matter what it takes, and will gladly give their lives (and as many of the invaders as they can take) to this end. Yet, the only solution today would be to make up (including honoring the right of return). It would be hard since the Israelis are essentially the Afrikaners of S. Africa, and worse nearly all the prime land is stolen, and some must be given back to the returning families, but if Israel were to actually become a democracy, and not what is in fact a theocracy (see Israeli laws preferential to Jews), and begin re-integrating refugees, it might be possible to overcome the other obstacles. It seems to me as uncertain as this path is, that any other path will lead to certain destruction-- a stopped up pressure cooker eventually explodes.

ggg999 12y ago

I don't see how you have countered anything that I have said. I think the actions of governments like Egypt's are horrible WRT the Palestinians too, but that was not the point of my post. I was responding to a racist anti-arab rant (that ended up being down-voted by the time I finished composing my response). Hasney Mubarak became an American/Israeli puppet. As for keeping the Palestinians in refugee camps, the Palestinians have a right of return. The U.N. recognized this right decades ago. The root cause of refugees is Israel's policy of ethnic cleansing (against international law). Look for references to the "red house", to find early plans for this ethnic cleansing dating back to the founding of Israel. As for land swap, it doesn't work that way, and I'm sure you realize this. One bullet two kills, was not a "few individuals". And, it was only one of many slogans of the same ilk the Israeli military wore to that slaughter. Current PM of Israel has not only said things like, "... put Palestinians on a diet." In the context of starving the civilian prisoners in the giant open air prison that is Gaza (illegal collective punishment), but also was instrumental in multiple massacres of Palestinians. How is a speech worse than actual mass murder? Read transcripts of the Knesset (Israeli legislature) to see the attacks on the non-Jewish minority-- including death threats, rape threats, etc. (yes, stated openly in the official meetings). Started by Hamas is usually a fiction. In almost every case, go back one or two weeks more than the Israeli propaganda, and you will see Israeli aggression, Israel breaking a cease fire, Israel assassinating a politician, Israel killing a fisherman/farmer/child etc. That said, there are no innocents among those active in a battle, but the balance of power, balance of aggression, and balance of casualties is such that Israel carries the vast majority of the blame. The ratio of civilian deaths prove who is the aggressor. It is unfortunate that Briton essentially wanted a white-ish colony in the Middle East. It is sad that most of Europe were only too happy to be rid of their Jews. It is also terrible how Jews, Romani, disabled, gays, etc. suffered under the Nazis. But, it is not fair that the indigenous Arabs of Palestine suffer for it. "Copied from the Nazis" hmmmmm... Gaza =~ Warsaw ghetto, Organ harvesting for benefit of Jews, etc. I see your point, but it is probably not the point you meant to make. As for antisemitism, everything is antisemitism (or self hating) in regards to criticism of Israel. Yet, antisemitism is OK when practiced by an Israeli-- the Arabs subject to oppression and massacres by Israelis _are_ Semitic people. Israel is an imperialist enterprise, and yes 7% was bought by Jews, I said that in my original post, but the rest was stolen. It is a terrible situation that has only a couple outcomes. Some radical Jews want to see Israel's borders expanded to the biblical boarders to, in their minds, allow the return of the Messiah, some radical Christians want to support those radical Jews in the hopes that WWIII breaks out centered in Israel, in their minds, allowing the return of their Jesus, some radical Muslims want the invaders gone no matter what it takes, and will gladly give their lives (and as many of the invaders as they can take) to this end. Yet, the only solution today would be to make up (including honoring the right of return). It would be hard since the Israelis are essentially the Afrikaners of S. Africa, and worse nearly all the prime land is stolen, and some must be given back to the returning families, but if Israel were to actually become a democracy, and not what is in fact a theocracy (see Israeli laws preferential to Jews), and begin re-integrating refugees, it might be possible to overcome the other obstacles. It seems to me as uncertain as this path is, that any other path will lead to certain destruction-- a stopped up pressure cooker eventually explodes.