5 ms·

When they are arguing from a position of privilege that they should be prioritized against wishes of disenfranchised groups? Frankly, yes. Yes it does.

mkal_tsr 12y ago
But if you have not fully lived the other person's life experience to the totality that they have, how can you be so certain of their privilege based on 2 data points?
- gnarbarian 12y ago
  Because they are the biggest hypocrites of all. They hide behind a faux-academic legitimacy of radical feminism and sociology. They redefine racism/sexism to be power+privilege giving themselves a free pass to be bigots and attempt to silence dissenting opinions. If you are a white man who disagrees with them you're automatically wrong and you don't have the right to have an opinion. If you're not white or you are a woman and you disagree with them it's called "internalized misogyny". Basically these people have built up fallacious dogma to protect their tenuously fragile and hypocritical beliefs to justify their own hatred so they can be guilt free.
- mrcharles 12y ago
  Privilege does not mean you have had a problem free life. It means you haven't had to deal with certain things that other people have to deal with. If you are a white dude, you've never had a bank officer refuse you a loan for bullshit reasons because of his own racism. You've never had your resume skipped from a stack because the person looking at it didn't like your foreign sounding name, or because they were worried you might get pregnant. You've never had coworkers contribute to a climate of harassment because "it's just a joke" about rape, sexism, race, etc. I grew up really poor. Like, collecting bottles and exchanging for food poor with my single mother and sister. I had to work my ass off to get where I am today, but I did it by being able to get loans, being able to get apartments, by connections I made because of other white dudes. It took me a long time to realize that privilege isn't "you have everything"; privilege is "you don't have drawbacks that other people have to deal with daily no matter their situation."
  - mkal_tsr 12y ago
    I'm well aware what privilege is. I've been hit, spit on, bullied, tormented, passed over, told I wasn't a "real man", and more for being several std devs below the average height (fun fact, we make less money for this) due to a "heigh-ist" society. So when I see people saying, "I'm not a bigot, but your orientation+race+gender means you don't know how bad some people have it" I'm going to call out their bullshit. They haven't lived my life, they don't know what I have and have not gone through. To say that one's unchangeable traits precludes their experiences and opinions is undeniably bigoted. Don't promote that, listen to what people have to say and understand the context from which it was said.
    - mrcharles 12y ago
      And yet in this case, it's not being bigoted to suggest that white guys complaining that people want inclusiveness is a bad thing is an invalid opinion. It would be like tall people complaining that a Brown's opened up. "Why are they catering to all those short men? The real clothes market is in average/tall people!" You can call it bullshit if you want, I call it an argument made from a position of privilege. But once again, I don't think you really understand privilege. Privilege does not mean that you never have to deal with discrimination. It simply means that there are kinds of discrimination you will never have to deal with. White people have inherent privilege over black in north america. Men have inherent privilege over women in work settings. Tall people have privilege over short people when it comes to shopping for clothes. But one privilege absolutely does not imply all privilege.
      - mkal_tsr 12y ago
        > it's not being bigoted to suggest that white guys complaining that people want inclusiveness is a bad thing is an invalid opinion. Quote me where I said that it was anything to due with preventing inclusiveness. I'll be waiting. > I don't think you really understand privilege. And then you proceed to say that I had a valid example of privilege (discriminatory lower pay). > But one privilege absolutely does not imply all privilege. I never said that, quote me where I said that. I'll be waiting.
dragonwriter 12y ago
If their argument is invalid, its invalid independent of their sex or race. It seems to me that you disagree (with perhaps legitimate reasons) with the opinions, but rather than addressing that, use race or sex as an excuse to dismiss the holder of opinion (but selectively -- only when it disagrees with the "correct" opinion.)

mkal_tsr 12y ago

But if you have not fully lived the other person's life experience to the totality that they have, how can you be so certain of their privilege based on 2 data points?

gnarbarian 12y ago
Because they are the biggest hypocrites of all. They hide behind a faux-academic legitimacy of radical feminism and sociology. They redefine racism/sexism to be power+privilege giving themselves a free pass to be bigots and attempt to silence dissenting opinions. If you are a white man who disagrees with them you're automatically wrong and you don't have the right to have an opinion. If you're not white or you are a woman and you disagree with them it's called "internalized misogyny". Basically these people have built up fallacious dogma to protect their tenuously fragile and hypocritical beliefs to justify their own hatred so they can be guilt free.
mrcharles 12y ago
Privilege does not mean you have had a problem free life. It means you haven't had to deal with certain things that other people have to deal with. If you are a white dude, you've never had a bank officer refuse you a loan for bullshit reasons because of his own racism. You've never had your resume skipped from a stack because the person looking at it didn't like your foreign sounding name, or because they were worried you might get pregnant. You've never had coworkers contribute to a climate of harassment because "it's just a joke" about rape, sexism, race, etc. I grew up really poor. Like, collecting bottles and exchanging for food poor with my single mother and sister. I had to work my ass off to get where I am today, but I did it by being able to get loans, being able to get apartments, by connections I made because of other white dudes. It took me a long time to realize that privilege isn't "you have everything"; privilege is "you don't have drawbacks that other people have to deal with daily no matter their situation."
- mkal_tsr 12y ago
  I'm well aware what privilege is. I've been hit, spit on, bullied, tormented, passed over, told I wasn't a "real man", and more for being several std devs below the average height (fun fact, we make less money for this) due to a "heigh-ist" society. So when I see people saying, "I'm not a bigot, but your orientation+race+gender means you don't know how bad some people have it" I'm going to call out their bullshit. They haven't lived my life, they don't know what I have and have not gone through. To say that one's unchangeable traits precludes their experiences and opinions is undeniably bigoted. Don't promote that, listen to what people have to say and understand the context from which it was said.
  - mrcharles 12y ago
    And yet in this case, it's not being bigoted to suggest that white guys complaining that people want inclusiveness is a bad thing is an invalid opinion. It would be like tall people complaining that a Brown's opened up. "Why are they catering to all those short men? The real clothes market is in average/tall people!" You can call it bullshit if you want, I call it an argument made from a position of privilege. But once again, I don't think you really understand privilege. Privilege does not mean that you never have to deal with discrimination. It simply means that there are kinds of discrimination you will never have to deal with. White people have inherent privilege over black in north america. Men have inherent privilege over women in work settings. Tall people have privilege over short people when it comes to shopping for clothes. But one privilege absolutely does not imply all privilege.
    - mkal_tsr 12y ago
      > it's not being bigoted to suggest that white guys complaining that people want inclusiveness is a bad thing is an invalid opinion. Quote me where I said that it was anything to due with preventing inclusiveness. I'll be waiting. > I don't think you really understand privilege. And then you proceed to say that I had a valid example of privilege (discriminatory lower pay). > But one privilege absolutely does not imply all privilege. I never said that, quote me where I said that. I'll be waiting.

dragonwriter 12y ago

If their argument is invalid, its invalid independent of their sex or race. It seems to me that you disagree (with perhaps legitimate reasons) with the opinions, but rather than addressing that, use race or sex as an excuse to dismiss the holder of opinion (but selectively -- only when it disagrees with the "correct" opinion.)