6 ms·

Why the Apple IIe is the Best PC Ever Made

6 points by revital9 17y ago

dkersten 17y ago
So `apple = PC` now? after all those years of telling people that they were different? Hmm.
- revital9 17y ago
  "A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end user, with no intervening computer operator." (Wikipedia)
  - dkersten 17y ago
    Yet Apple like their "I'm a Mac; I'm a PC" stuff.
    - mechanical_fish 17y ago
      It's the fascinating history of branding. Apple invented the PC, but they poured their energy into selling the brand Apple rather than the term PC. IBM then came along with a machine called "the IBM PC", which sold a lot of units and was the subject of a lot of marketing. With the word PC as the actual name of the machine, the tendency to associate that term exclusively with IBM machines began. (As I recall, the generic term for a non-IBM PC tended to be "microcomputer" or "micro" rather than "PC".) That trend then leapt forward when Compaq started making PC clones. The clonemakers needed a word for what they were making. There was a time when you could call them "IBM compatibles", "PC compatibles", or "PC clones", but once IBM switched to PS/2 and OS/2 -- and proceeded to fade from dominance -- continuing to associate the word IBM with these things made little sense. Meanwhile, Apple wasn't trying to contest the term PC... instead they invented their own exclusive brand name, Macintosh, and sold the hell out of that. So in the end the word PC ended up meaning a generic Intel box that runs Microsoft Windows or Linux.
      - joezydeco 17y ago
        Nobody bought the IBM PC because it was called a "PC". They bought it because it was IBM, and in the 1980s there was a saying: "Nobody ever lost their job buying IBM".
        pg 17y ago
        IBM PCs were also more powerful than Apple IIs.
        mechanical_fish 17y ago
        Yes, that's right. What I'm saying is that IBM successfully sold the term "IBM PC" because it contained the magic letters I-B-M. But then the magic slowly spread to the other half of the phrase IBM PC, to the point where PC eventually became synonymous with IBM.
        joezydeco 17y ago
        No, it was because of Compaq. Compaq won the white-room reverse engineering suits against IBM, opening the door for dozens of manufacturers to make clones of the IBM PC/XT/AT. Eventually the term "PC Clone" got shortened to "PC" when referring to anything that was compatible with the PC-AT standard.
      - dkersten 17y ago
        By that modern definition of PC, the Apple II was not a PC and my point still stands.
- rick2047 17y ago
  An Apple can be defined as the state-of-the-art PC :) maybe
SwellJoe 17y ago
Two reasons why the C64 was even better: 1. Us poor folks could afford one. 2. Everything the Apple IIe did, the C64 did better. Better games, better high res graphics modes, dramatically better sound, and more software (because it was cheap, it sold more units, bigger market share, more third party applications). Bonus reason: The case was a third the size of the Apple IIe, making it much easier to haul over to friends houses.
- comatose_kid 17y ago
  The C64 also improved the fitness of its owners - you could play outside with your friends while a game loaded :)
- iuguy 17y ago
  Based on your description of the Apple IIe, the Sinclair ZX Spectrum was better still. Better high res graphics, similar sound capabilities (on the 128k model) and more software (at least in the UK). Bonus reason: The spectrum was a fraction of the size of an AppleIIe, about the size of a small book. But the rubber keys did suck.
  - SwellJoe 17y ago
    As I recall it, the 128k model of Spectrum didn't launch until the 8-bit era was coming to a close and 16 bit boxes had been out for a few years. The first-gen Spectrum was horrid (1k, worse than chiclet keyboard), though the second gen was acceptable (but not comparable to either of the 64 k machines in question). One could buy a C128D or an Apple IIc by the time the 128k Speccy existed, and those machines were at least comparable, and the Amige and Apple IIgs (or Macintosh) would blow the Speccy away. Not saying Spectrums weren't awesome (I don't really know; the only one I ever owned was that 1k first-gen model with a 16k expansion; it was miserable), just that you kinda have to compare Apples to...umm...not Apples. And, of course, the C64 is the bestselling personal computer of all time. (I should admit that you're arguing with an 11 year old SwellJoe here...I loved my C64. And, crazy as it sounds, I also bought some C64s on eBay over the past few months for use in composing chiptunes. Thus, evidence indicates I might be mentally unstable with regard to the C64. Backing away slowly might be the best option.)
jawngee 17y ago
Forgot the most important one: 1. Completely open hardware, Apple encouraged hacking. Contrast that with the iPhone and ... well ... sigh.
joezydeco 17y ago
Built-in BASIC. That was key for me. No need to find the disks or install anything. You could be up and messing around with a small program within a minute.
st3fan 17y ago
The correct name is Apple //e .. Only the original Apple ][ and ][+ used the squared brackets in the name.
- st3fan 17y ago
  Also, that picture is an Apple ][. This is a //e http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Apple_iieb.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Apple_iie...

6 points by revital9 17y ago

dkersten 17y ago

So `apple = PC` now? after all those years of telling people that they were different? Hmm.

revital9 17y ago
"A personal computer (PC) is any general-purpose computer whose size, capabilities, and original sales price make it useful for individuals, and which is intended to be operated directly by an end user, with no intervening computer operator." (Wikipedia)
- dkersten 17y ago
  Yet Apple like their "I'm a Mac; I'm a PC" stuff.
  - mechanical_fish 17y ago
    It's the fascinating history of branding. Apple invented the PC, but they poured their energy into selling the brand Apple rather than the term PC. IBM then came along with a machine called "the IBM PC", which sold a lot of units and was the subject of a lot of marketing. With the word PC as the actual name of the machine, the tendency to associate that term exclusively with IBM machines began. (As I recall, the generic term for a non-IBM PC tended to be "microcomputer" or "micro" rather than "PC".) That trend then leapt forward when Compaq started making PC clones. The clonemakers needed a word for what they were making. There was a time when you could call them "IBM compatibles", "PC compatibles", or "PC clones", but once IBM switched to PS/2 and OS/2 -- and proceeded to fade from dominance -- continuing to associate the word IBM with these things made little sense. Meanwhile, Apple wasn't trying to contest the term PC... instead they invented their own exclusive brand name, Macintosh, and sold the hell out of that. So in the end the word PC ended up meaning a generic Intel box that runs Microsoft Windows or Linux.
    - joezydeco 17y ago
      Nobody bought the IBM PC because it was called a "PC". They bought it because it was IBM, and in the 1980s there was a saying: "Nobody ever lost their job buying IBM".
      - pg 17y ago
        IBM PCs were also more powerful than Apple IIs.
      - mechanical_fish 17y ago
        Yes, that's right. What I'm saying is that IBM successfully sold the term "IBM PC" because it contained the magic letters I-B-M. But then the magic slowly spread to the other half of the phrase IBM PC, to the point where PC eventually became synonymous with IBM.
        joezydeco 17y ago
        No, it was because of Compaq. Compaq won the white-room reverse engineering suits against IBM, opening the door for dozens of manufacturers to make clones of the IBM PC/XT/AT. Eventually the term "PC Clone" got shortened to "PC" when referring to anything that was compatible with the PC-AT standard.
    - dkersten 17y ago
      By that modern definition of PC, the Apple II was not a PC and my point still stands.
rick2047 17y ago
An Apple can be defined as the state-of-the-art PC :) maybe

SwellJoe 17y ago

Two reasons why the C64 was even better: 1. Us poor folks could afford one. 2. Everything the Apple IIe did, the C64 did better. Better games, better high res graphics modes, dramatically better sound, and more software (because it was cheap, it sold more units, bigger market share, more third party applications). Bonus reason: The case was a third the size of the Apple IIe, making it much easier to haul over to friends houses.

comatose_kid 17y ago
The C64 also improved the fitness of its owners - you could play outside with your friends while a game loaded :)
iuguy 17y ago
Based on your description of the Apple IIe, the Sinclair ZX Spectrum was better still. Better high res graphics, similar sound capabilities (on the 128k model) and more software (at least in the UK). Bonus reason: The spectrum was a fraction of the size of an AppleIIe, about the size of a small book. But the rubber keys did suck.
- SwellJoe 17y ago
  As I recall it, the 128k model of Spectrum didn't launch until the 8-bit era was coming to a close and 16 bit boxes had been out for a few years. The first-gen Spectrum was horrid (1k, worse than chiclet keyboard), though the second gen was acceptable (but not comparable to either of the 64 k machines in question). One could buy a C128D or an Apple IIc by the time the 128k Speccy existed, and those machines were at least comparable, and the Amige and Apple IIgs (or Macintosh) would blow the Speccy away. Not saying Spectrums weren't awesome (I don't really know; the only one I ever owned was that 1k first-gen model with a 16k expansion; it was miserable), just that you kinda have to compare Apples to...umm...not Apples. And, of course, the C64 is the bestselling personal computer of all time. (I should admit that you're arguing with an 11 year old SwellJoe here...I loved my C64. And, crazy as it sounds, I also bought some C64s on eBay over the past few months for use in composing chiptunes. Thus, evidence indicates I might be mentally unstable with regard to the C64. Backing away slowly might be the best option.)

jawngee 17y ago

Forgot the most important one: 1. Completely open hardware, Apple encouraged hacking. Contrast that with the iPhone and ... well ... sigh.

joezydeco 17y ago

Built-in BASIC. That was key for me. No need to find the disks or install anything. You could be up and messing around with a small program within a minute.

st3fan 17y ago

The correct name is Apple //e .. Only the original Apple ][ and ][+ used the squared brackets in the name.

st3fan 17y ago
Also, that picture is an Apple ][. This is a //e http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Apple_iieb.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Apple_iie...