6 ms·

This is awesome. A diversity of people will bring a diversity of ideas. You can find highly intelligent, driven people from all walks of life, it's a shame that

This is awesome. A diversity of people will bring a diversity of ideas. You can find highly intelligent, driven people from all walks of life, it's a shame that there's a process broken in self-selection for software engineering and bay area startups. Although it's probably not just diverse self-selection that needs work, I imagine there's probably forms of discrimination and roadblocks that privileged classes of the majority don't even recognize.

gordjw 12y ago
So, as someone who is a privileged class of the majority (white, male, 25-49), what are the roadblocks? If there's discrimination, isn't that purely the fault of the Y Combinator organisers (in this instance), and is this article then an admission that they've discriminated in the past?
- viiralvx 12y ago
  Black male here, aged 18-25, Computer Science and Design student in my final semester of University. The roadblocks from a racial perspective is lack of resources and education, there is a fair amount of poverty within black America. Did you have access to a computer growing up? Maybe you had one or two in your house? Then you may have been able to learn more about programming from a younger age, or maybe you had a computer lab in your school...On the other hand, maybe you are also assumed to be inadequate by society because of your skintone, you are automatically stereotyped to be unintelligent or a subpar developer. Those are the roadblocks we have to face, whether it stems from society or socioeconomic status, we have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves in America.
  - Chronic29 12y ago
    America is the best place you can go. Yes you have to work twice as hard, but if you don't like it, perhaps think about moving to another country.
  - coffeemug 12y ago
    I'm a white startup founder in SV. Systematic discrimination due to unequal access to infrastructure really, really sucks for the black community as a whole, but if you managed to overcome it as an individual there are multiple interrelated reasons why you have a massive advantage in startups/tech that you probably aren't aware of yet. Firstly, the market is ruthless. You can't lie to yourself or others in a startup -- the thing you're doing really has to work, so the decisions you're making have to be right. You're white, had a great education, and a well-padded resume? If you don't make precisely the right choices, the market couldn't care less, your company will die. Now, white well educated people with well-padded resumes will probably have easier access to venture capital, but that brings me to my next point. In my (totally unscientific) experience, skin color, education, and experience has no correlation whatsoever with fluid intelligence (essentially, how well you make decisions without knowledge). In a big company, fluid intelligence doesn't really matter all that much -- the culture is well established, you aren't that important, and if you can just play ball the way everyone else does, you'll do ok. Not so in a startup. In a startup you're dealing with completely new territory, so you have to figure things out from scratch, all the time. You might as well take your knowledge, and your experience, and your education, and throw it all away because it will make a zilch of difference. Fluid intelligence is everything because you have to figure everything out from scratch. All the white, well-educated, experienced young men who have relatively easy access to VC capital? Without fluid intelligence and wits about them, they'll just burn through it and be left with nothing at the end. The market is ruthless -- it doesn't care. So you're on equal footing. Finally, the space is hyper-competitive and even in a recession there is too much capital chasing too few good ideas. All those white, traditional, middle aged male VC partnerships really need a win. And I mean really, because if they don't get one they won't raise the next fund, and if they don't raise the next fund they won't be able to pay property taxes and their kids's private school tuitions, and they really, really don't want to end up there. Don't like black people? Have unacknowledged bias? Too bad -- your kids are going to public school next year. So if you come in with a killer idea and the seeds of a working business, you bet they'll invest. The pressure's too high not to. They might care what you look like, but the market doesn't care about them. The market is ruthless and indifferent, and forces them to act ruthless and indifferent, because if they act on their prejudices their fund will die. This is getting a bit long, so here's my TL;DR: if you've been discriminated against your whole life and want to start a company, don't get discouraged. The market is ruthless and indifferent -- it doesn't care about you, or me, or anyone. For you, that's an advantage. Build something people want and you will be rewarded.
  - gordjw 12y ago
    Thanks for your response mate. I'm not American, so it's hard for me to tell what's going on in your society. My parents were fairly poor, although they never really let us kids feel like it at the time. But yes we did have a computer at home. I had some other comments, but the way you put this has really made me rethink them. I'll just say that if you make it to YC, then you're clearly doing something right.
    - viiralvx 12y ago
      Glad that I could offer my perspective, I'm hoping I am successful enough of an entrepreneur to get into YCombinator in the future, but I'm excited to see the diversity in new companies that get into Ycombinator.
- bellerocky 12y ago
  I don't have good answers for you, but discrimination isn't always done intentionally. Maybe more often than not it's ignorance or simply institutional. I am also a white male. It took a long time for me to figure out my own biases and honestly I am still learning about them. I recommend this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0484384/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0484384/ (The Color of Fear) There are pieces of it on YouTube apparently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nmhAJYxFT4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nmhAJYxFT4 I once decided to investigate racism more. In addition to reading academic materials I also tried reading magazines intended for black women and found a section on how not to scare your white boss with your hair. There was all kinds of stuff like that, and it was both shocking and depressing. I just had no idea.
  - wutbrodo 12y ago
    Oh man, black women's hair is a HUGE under-the-radar discrimination issue. It's one of those issues that get dismissed because of how silly it sounds (and a prime candidate for people saying "for fuck's sake is everything discrimination now?!?!"). But seriously, the natural hairstyles of many black women aren't considered "professional" in a lot of contexts, and spending a pretty-large amount of money and time at salons torturing your hair into looking white is pretty much the only option in some circumstances. AFAICT, the solution is "easy" per se, but difficult considering how slow culture changes: don't define "different" as unprofessional. Thankfully this is one of the problems that tech is better about than other places in general (because seriously, who gives a fuck about your appearance unless you're a model/actor/customer-facing/etc).
- owenmarshall 12y ago
  > If there's discrimination, There is. > isn't that purely the fault of the Y Combinator organisers (in this instance) Some of the fault likely is, likely through unacknowledged bias. But discrimination comes in far more systemic forms: if you're a black child you're far more likely to attend a school with concentrated poverty than a white student. You're twice as likely to have teachers that are brand new, or have very little experience. You're less likely to be offered advanced classes. And boom, by the time you're applying for college, you're already behind the curve. > and is this article then an admission that they've discriminated in the past? They likely haven't actively discriminated against black applicants. But by not doing anything to further outreach, yeah, they kinda have.
  - shamney 12y ago
    this argument supports reaching out to everyone who might have experienced educational and social disadvantages not just potential black applicants.
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      And what's wrong with that? There should be outreach in many directions.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
- Jun8 12y ago
  Pointing out problems that a certain group is facing does not automatically make people outside that group privileged. I think your comment was meant sarcastically but this error is usually done. I am also "white" and in 25-49 group (towards the upper end, though), grew up in a different country, had my first home PC during the second year of MS degree with money earned from giving private lessons. None of my friends in the 80s had PCs. I am still struggling to bring my coding skills up to par caused from such a late start. I was not "privileged" in any way or form. I'm now volunteering at a poor neighborhood high school in Chivago, teaching them Python and helping the FRC Team do the programming. I don't for this because I felt sorry for my privileges, I do it because it's the right thing to do. Certain aspects of life may be correlated with skin color, we still shouldn't lump the two together.
  - gordjw 12y ago
    I'm also a non-American, and it wasn't sarcasm. I think the privileged label is overused these days (esp online), but the way I see it is that I've (apparently) got it slightly easier than a black person. Doesn't mean I didn't work hard to achieve what I have, and my parents were fairly poor, but I didn't have other people looking at me and dismissing me because of my skin colour. Some people are more "privileged" than me, some less. It's a scale of difficulty, and people love to label and classify.
- gone35 12y ago
  What are the roadblocks? It's hard to tell in the general case and it's still an open research subject in the empirical literature [1]; but for the specific case of labor inequality, there is consistent evidence that race differences in access to networks is one key roadblock --especially in the high-tech sector, where hiring 'through the vine' is common and encouraged [ibid, pp.15-16]. This is one aspect in which outreach efforts like sama's alone can make a huge difference. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/pdf/nihms222293.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/pdf/nihm...

gordjw 12y ago

So, as someone who is a privileged class of the majority (white, male, 25-49), what are the roadblocks? If there's discrimination, isn't that purely the fault of the Y Combinator organisers (in this instance), and is this article then an admission that they've discriminated in the past?

viiralvx 12y ago
Black male here, aged 18-25, Computer Science and Design student in my final semester of University. The roadblocks from a racial perspective is lack of resources and education, there is a fair amount of poverty within black America. Did you have access to a computer growing up? Maybe you had one or two in your house? Then you may have been able to learn more about programming from a younger age, or maybe you had a computer lab in your school...On the other hand, maybe you are also assumed to be inadequate by society because of your skintone, you are automatically stereotyped to be unintelligent or a subpar developer. Those are the roadblocks we have to face, whether it stems from society or socioeconomic status, we have to work twice as hard to prove ourselves in America.
- Chronic29 12y ago
  America is the best place you can go. Yes you have to work twice as hard, but if you don't like it, perhaps think about moving to another country.
- coffeemug 12y ago
  I'm a white startup founder in SV. Systematic discrimination due to unequal access to infrastructure really, really sucks for the black community as a whole, but if you managed to overcome it as an individual there are multiple interrelated reasons why you have a massive advantage in startups/tech that you probably aren't aware of yet. Firstly, the market is ruthless. You can't lie to yourself or others in a startup -- the thing you're doing really has to work, so the decisions you're making have to be right. You're white, had a great education, and a well-padded resume? If you don't make precisely the right choices, the market couldn't care less, your company will die. Now, white well educated people with well-padded resumes will probably have easier access to venture capital, but that brings me to my next point. In my (totally unscientific) experience, skin color, education, and experience has no correlation whatsoever with fluid intelligence (essentially, how well you make decisions without knowledge). In a big company, fluid intelligence doesn't really matter all that much -- the culture is well established, you aren't that important, and if you can just play ball the way everyone else does, you'll do ok. Not so in a startup. In a startup you're dealing with completely new territory, so you have to figure things out from scratch, all the time. You might as well take your knowledge, and your experience, and your education, and throw it all away because it will make a zilch of difference. Fluid intelligence is everything because you have to figure everything out from scratch. All the white, well-educated, experienced young men who have relatively easy access to VC capital? Without fluid intelligence and wits about them, they'll just burn through it and be left with nothing at the end. The market is ruthless -- it doesn't care. So you're on equal footing. Finally, the space is hyper-competitive and even in a recession there is too much capital chasing too few good ideas. All those white, traditional, middle aged male VC partnerships really need a win. And I mean really, because if they don't get one they won't raise the next fund, and if they don't raise the next fund they won't be able to pay property taxes and their kids's private school tuitions, and they really, really don't want to end up there. Don't like black people? Have unacknowledged bias? Too bad -- your kids are going to public school next year. So if you come in with a killer idea and the seeds of a working business, you bet they'll invest. The pressure's too high not to. They might care what you look like, but the market doesn't care about them. The market is ruthless and indifferent, and forces them to act ruthless and indifferent, because if they act on their prejudices their fund will die. This is getting a bit long, so here's my TL;DR: if you've been discriminated against your whole life and want to start a company, don't get discouraged. The market is ruthless and indifferent -- it doesn't care about you, or me, or anyone. For you, that's an advantage. Build something people want and you will be rewarded.
- gordjw 12y ago
  Thanks for your response mate. I'm not American, so it's hard for me to tell what's going on in your society. My parents were fairly poor, although they never really let us kids feel like it at the time. But yes we did have a computer at home. I had some other comments, but the way you put this has really made me rethink them. I'll just say that if you make it to YC, then you're clearly doing something right.
  - viiralvx 12y ago
    Glad that I could offer my perspective, I'm hoping I am successful enough of an entrepreneur to get into YCombinator in the future, but I'm excited to see the diversity in new companies that get into Ycombinator.
bellerocky 12y ago
I don't have good answers for you, but discrimination isn't always done intentionally. Maybe more often than not it's ignorance or simply institutional. I am also a white male. It took a long time for me to figure out my own biases and honestly I am still learning about them. I recommend this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0484384/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0484384/ (The Color of Fear) There are pieces of it on YouTube apparently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nmhAJYxFT4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nmhAJYxFT4 I once decided to investigate racism more. In addition to reading academic materials I also tried reading magazines intended for black women and found a section on how not to scare your white boss with your hair. There was all kinds of stuff like that, and it was both shocking and depressing. I just had no idea.
- wutbrodo 12y ago
  Oh man, black women's hair is a HUGE under-the-radar discrimination issue. It's one of those issues that get dismissed because of how silly it sounds (and a prime candidate for people saying "for fuck's sake is everything discrimination now?!?!"). But seriously, the natural hairstyles of many black women aren't considered "professional" in a lot of contexts, and spending a pretty-large amount of money and time at salons torturing your hair into looking white is pretty much the only option in some circumstances. AFAICT, the solution is "easy" per se, but difficult considering how slow culture changes: don't define "different" as unprofessional. Thankfully this is one of the problems that tech is better about than other places in general (because seriously, who gives a fuck about your appearance unless you're a model/actor/customer-facing/etc).
owenmarshall 12y ago
> If there's discrimination, There is. > isn't that purely the fault of the Y Combinator organisers (in this instance) Some of the fault likely is, likely through unacknowledged bias. But discrimination comes in far more systemic forms: if you're a black child you're far more likely to attend a school with concentrated poverty than a white student. You're twice as likely to have teachers that are brand new, or have very little experience. You're less likely to be offered advanced classes. And boom, by the time you're applying for college, you're already behind the curve. > and is this article then an admission that they've discriminated in the past? They likely haven't actively discriminated against black applicants. But by not doing anything to further outreach, yeah, they kinda have.
- shamney 12y ago
  this argument supports reaching out to everyone who might have experienced educational and social disadvantages not just potential black applicants.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    And what's wrong with that? There should be outreach in many directions.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
Jun8 12y ago
Pointing out problems that a certain group is facing does not automatically make people outside that group privileged. I think your comment was meant sarcastically but this error is usually done. I am also "white" and in 25-49 group (towards the upper end, though), grew up in a different country, had my first home PC during the second year of MS degree with money earned from giving private lessons. None of my friends in the 80s had PCs. I am still struggling to bring my coding skills up to par caused from such a late start. I was not "privileged" in any way or form. I'm now volunteering at a poor neighborhood high school in Chivago, teaching them Python and helping the FRC Team do the programming. I don't for this because I felt sorry for my privileges, I do it because it's the right thing to do. Certain aspects of life may be correlated with skin color, we still shouldn't lump the two together.
- gordjw 12y ago
  I'm also a non-American, and it wasn't sarcasm. I think the privileged label is overused these days (esp online), but the way I see it is that I've (apparently) got it slightly easier than a black person. Doesn't mean I didn't work hard to achieve what I have, and my parents were fairly poor, but I didn't have other people looking at me and dismissing me because of my skin colour. Some people are more "privileged" than me, some less. It's a scale of difficulty, and people love to label and classify.
gone35 12y ago
What are the roadblocks? It's hard to tell in the general case and it's still an open research subject in the empirical literature [1]; but for the specific case of labor inequality, there is consistent evidence that race differences in access to networks is one key roadblock --especially in the high-tech sector, where hiring 'through the vine' is common and encouraged [ibid, pp.15-16]. This is one aspect in which outreach efforts like sama's alone can make a huge difference. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/pdf/nihms222293.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915460/pdf/nihm...