5 ms·

The "etiquette" of these companies sounds absolutely soul-crushing.

by bfwi 12y ago

hkmurakami 12y ago
As a westerner who had his soul crushed once by the machine there, I can attest. That being said, I do think that it's not as bad if you look foreign (esp if you're white). You also need to be able to ignore the norms even if you are aware of them. If you start worrying about complying with the norms that you know are there but aren't quite sure where the boundaries are (like I did), then your soul is guaranteed to be crushed.
- intruder 12y ago
  As someone looking for a job here right now and being quite norm conforming, this terrifies me. I'll try to find a foreign company.
  - euske 12y ago
    Nah. Many small firms and tech-oriented startups are much more casual and often liberal too, so no worry. I (as a native Japanese) work for a small tech company in Tokyo. The workplace is pretty friendly and negotiable. I bike to my work and have a power nap every day. I can have weeklong vacations a few times a year. The pay is not as great as the big guys, but generally I consider it a good life. Good luck with job searching!
kyllo 12y ago
Speaking as someone who was recruited out of university into the management training program of a Korean conglomerate, the life these kids are headed for is indeed soul-crushing. Common activities will include trying to stay awake during two-hour meetings with no agenda, surfing the internet while pretending to work, but still having to stay for at least 10 hours, and mandatory evening drinking/karaoke parties with the boss. And consuming a fuckton of instant coffee and cigarettes.
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  If Korean conglomerates are so terribly managed, why have they been so successful?[0] 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_the_Han_River http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_the_Han_River
  - pavedwalden 12y ago
    This comment was on its way to being greyed out when I came by (perhaps it was read as argumentative rather than inquisitive), but it's something that I wondered about too. Whenever I hear about terrible practices within an industry or particular company, I'm curious what counterbalancing factors allow it to carry on.
    - w1ntermute 12y ago
      I didn't mean to sound argumentative. I'm not suggesting that there aren't inefficiencies and problems with management at Korean conglomerates. I'm genuinely interested in this seeming contradiction, and in exactly how certain countries have managed to modernize so successfully, while others are stuck in a rut: http://i.imgur.com/yUoeWW0.png http://i.imgur.com/yUoeWW0.png
  - Bahamut 12y ago
    From what I understand, the quality of life sucks in Korea. For example, I am told secondhand of some terrible working conditions in Samsung, and the reason why employees put up with it is because there are many Koreans willing to put up with awful conditions just to be able to say that they worked at Samsung & have a stable job.
    - w1ntermute 12y ago
      > From what I understand, the quality of life sucks in Korea. I don't see any point in arguing about secondhand anecdotal data about working conditions at one specific company (I could regale you with a dozen such anecdotes heard from friends about working conditions at American companies), but South Korea's HDI is now 0.891, above countries like Japan, France, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Italy, and Spain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Very_high_human_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve...
KaoruAoiShiho 12y ago
The ignorance of the NYTimes is absolutely soul-crushing. FTFY
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  The ignorance of journalists is absolutely soul-crushing. FTFY

The "etiquette" of these companies sounds absolutely soul-crushing.

by bfwi 12y ago

The "etiquette" of these companies sounds absolutely soul-crushing.

As a westerner who had his soul crushed once by the machine there, I can attest. That being said, I do think that it's not as bad if you look foreign (esp if you're white). You also need to be able to ignore the norms even if you are aware of them. If you start worrying about complying with the norms that you know are there but aren't quite sure where the boundaries are (like I did), then your soul is guaranteed to be crushed.

intruder 12y ago
As someone looking for a job here right now and being quite norm conforming, this terrifies me. I'll try to find a foreign company.
- euske 12y ago
  Nah. Many small firms and tech-oriented startups are much more casual and often liberal too, so no worry. I (as a native Japanese) work for a small tech company in Tokyo. The workplace is pretty friendly and negotiable. I bike to my work and have a power nap every day. I can have weeklong vacations a few times a year. The pay is not as great as the big guys, but generally I consider it a good life. Good luck with job searching!

kyllo 12y ago

Speaking as someone who was recruited out of university into the management training program of a Korean conglomerate, the life these kids are headed for is indeed soul-crushing. Common activities will include trying to stay awake during two-hour meetings with no agenda, surfing the internet while pretending to work, but still having to stay for at least 10 hours, and mandatory evening drinking/karaoke parties with the boss. And consuming a fuckton of instant coffee and cigarettes.

w1ntermute 12y ago
If Korean conglomerates are so terribly managed, why have they been so successful?[0] 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_the_Han_River http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_the_Han_River
- pavedwalden 12y ago
  This comment was on its way to being greyed out when I came by (perhaps it was read as argumentative rather than inquisitive), but it's something that I wondered about too. Whenever I hear about terrible practices within an industry or particular company, I'm curious what counterbalancing factors allow it to carry on.
  - w1ntermute 12y ago
    I didn't mean to sound argumentative. I'm not suggesting that there aren't inefficiencies and problems with management at Korean conglomerates. I'm genuinely interested in this seeming contradiction, and in exactly how certain countries have managed to modernize so successfully, while others are stuck in a rut: http://i.imgur.com/yUoeWW0.png http://i.imgur.com/yUoeWW0.png
- Bahamut 12y ago
  From what I understand, the quality of life sucks in Korea. For example, I am told secondhand of some terrible working conditions in Samsung, and the reason why employees put up with it is because there are many Koreans willing to put up with awful conditions just to be able to say that they worked at Samsung & have a stable job.
  - w1ntermute 12y ago
    > From what I understand, the quality of life sucks in Korea. I don't see any point in arguing about secondhand anecdotal data about working conditions at one specific company (I could regale you with a dozen such anecdotes heard from friends about working conditions at American companies), but South Korea's HDI is now 0.891, above countries like Japan, France, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Italy, and Spain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Very_high_human_development http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve...

KaoruAoiShiho 12y ago

The ignorance of the NYTimes is absolutely soul-crushing. FTFY

w1ntermute 12y ago
The ignorance of journalists is absolutely soul-crushing. FTFY