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Can you cite any examples of people who have been silenced or shamed by a conference harrassment code? You mean besides the Adria Richard's example? At a prof

Can you cite any examples of people who have been silenced or shamed by a conference harrassment code? You mean besides the Adria Richard's example? At a professional conference, it should not be that hard to control your behavior. The conference organizers seem to disagree with you in this case. a conference martyr good one.

idlewords 12y ago
It might be useful to remember how the conference organizers handled that incident: > Both parties were met with, in private. The comments that were made were in poor taste, and individuals involved agreed, apologized and no further actions were taken by the staff of PyCon 2013. No individuals were removed from the conference, no sanctions were levied. But let's grant for argument's sake that this was an example of public shaming that cries out to the very heavens for justice. What are some others? Just to balance out the huge number of reported harassment incidents from tech conferences, and the bigger number that must go unreported.
- cantastoria 12y ago
  What are some others? Why is the one example not enough to prove my point? I could name a hundred and you still wouldn't be happy. Why bother.
  - idlewords 12y ago
    My argument is that the kind of thing you're concerned about basically never happens, while harrassment at tech conferences happens all the time. That's an assertion of fact, which you can disprove by giving examples. Maybe I'm wrong and all kinds of men are being kept from conferences, and shamed into silence, by harrassment codes. Tell me their stories!
    - cantastoria 12y ago
      I'm not concerned about how often it happens. I'm concerned about the potential for it to happen. The Richard's example shows that potential. Your insistence on more examples as some metric of proof is none of my concern.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        You haven't yet provided an actual example. Maybe you could start with just one.
        cantastoria 12y ago
        Good night gents.
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        You're worried about the potential of a code of conduct being used abusively. Meanwhile, they exist because of the real, not theoretical, abuse encountered at some events.
    - facepalm 12y ago
      There are enough examples of men being ruined by female accusations. Most recent I remember from HN is the GitHub founder being fired. Then there was the guy who reverted the gendering comments on some open source project (was it NodeJS?) and received a shit storm. Another one I remember is the Ruby conference where an employee flirted with her boss at a restaurant (letting her colleagues drink from her navel) and then called rape when he ended up slow-dancing with her. Adria Richards is also a good example - why wasn't she expelled from the conference, what good is a policy if it isn't being enforced? Your question is of course also absurd because you ask for examples of the absence of something. It doesn't create much publicy if somebody decides to skip a conference. I personally would think twice about going to a conference with such policies because I consider them insulting.
    - facepalm 12y ago
      Another victim could be women - if the safe way to attend a conference is not to talk to women. I remember a post on HN by a woman who has long been a coder/hacker and got along very well with the male coders. But recently she noticed that they don't dare to invite her (or was it just the newcomer women whom they didn't know so well yet) to parties and after show events anymore for fear of unwarranted accusations.
  - king_jester 12y ago
    > I could name a hundred and you still wouldn't be happy. Why bother. I could support what I'm saying, but that's too hard. The reality is there aren't many examples of someone being unjustly sanctioned by a code of conduct.
    - cantastoria 12y ago
      No. I simply refuse to adopt his/your standard of proof. If that makes you think you've won the argument then so be it.
- facepalm 12y ago
  The harassment numbers are not really huge. Feminists try to maintain a list and I think it clearly shows that incidents are rare - and half the items on the list are even cases I personally wouldn't count. But even if you count them all, given the huge amount of IT events, it is a very short list. I think at the last Chaos Computing Congress there were a huge number of incidents and feminist campaigners threatening people with self-made "red cards". Just to mention one example that might be easily googleable.

idlewords 12y ago

It might be useful to remember how the conference organizers handled that incident: > Both parties were met with, in private. The comments that were made were in poor taste, and individuals involved agreed, apologized and no further actions were taken by the staff of PyCon 2013. No individuals were removed from the conference, no sanctions were levied. But let's grant for argument's sake that this was an example of public shaming that cries out to the very heavens for justice. What are some others? Just to balance out the huge number of reported harassment incidents from tech conferences, and the bigger number that must go unreported.

cantastoria 12y ago
What are some others? Why is the one example not enough to prove my point? I could name a hundred and you still wouldn't be happy. Why bother.
- idlewords 12y ago
  My argument is that the kind of thing you're concerned about basically never happens, while harrassment at tech conferences happens all the time. That's an assertion of fact, which you can disprove by giving examples. Maybe I'm wrong and all kinds of men are being kept from conferences, and shamed into silence, by harrassment codes. Tell me their stories!
  - cantastoria 12y ago
    I'm not concerned about how often it happens. I'm concerned about the potential for it to happen. The Richard's example shows that potential. Your insistence on more examples as some metric of proof is none of my concern.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      You haven't yet provided an actual example. Maybe you could start with just one.
      - cantastoria 12y ago
        Good night gents.
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      You're worried about the potential of a code of conduct being used abusively. Meanwhile, they exist because of the real, not theoretical, abuse encountered at some events.
  - facepalm 12y ago
    There are enough examples of men being ruined by female accusations. Most recent I remember from HN is the GitHub founder being fired. Then there was the guy who reverted the gendering comments on some open source project (was it NodeJS?) and received a shit storm. Another one I remember is the Ruby conference where an employee flirted with her boss at a restaurant (letting her colleagues drink from her navel) and then called rape when he ended up slow-dancing with her. Adria Richards is also a good example - why wasn't she expelled from the conference, what good is a policy if it isn't being enforced? Your question is of course also absurd because you ask for examples of the absence of something. It doesn't create much publicy if somebody decides to skip a conference. I personally would think twice about going to a conference with such policies because I consider them insulting.
  - facepalm 12y ago
    Another victim could be women - if the safe way to attend a conference is not to talk to women. I remember a post on HN by a woman who has long been a coder/hacker and got along very well with the male coders. But recently she noticed that they don't dare to invite her (or was it just the newcomer women whom they didn't know so well yet) to parties and after show events anymore for fear of unwarranted accusations.
- king_jester 12y ago
  > I could name a hundred and you still wouldn't be happy. Why bother. I could support what I'm saying, but that's too hard. The reality is there aren't many examples of someone being unjustly sanctioned by a code of conduct.
  - cantastoria 12y ago
    No. I simply refuse to adopt his/your standard of proof. If that makes you think you've won the argument then so be it.
facepalm 12y ago
The harassment numbers are not really huge. Feminists try to maintain a list and I think it clearly shows that incidents are rare - and half the items on the list are even cases I personally wouldn't count. But even if you count them all, given the huge amount of IT events, it is a very short list. I think at the last Chaos Computing Congress there were a huge number of incidents and feminist campaigners threatening people with self-made "red cards". Just to mention one example that might be easily googleable.