4 ms·

"the studies found that children using the software scored no better than peers who did not have access to the software" Yeah, but at least they know how to us

"the studies found that children using the software scored no better than peers who did not have access to the software" Yeah, but at least they know how to use computers while those without OLPCs do not.

SamAtt 17y ago
I'm not sure that's true, at least not with the OLPC. The OLPC doesn't resemble modern interfaces (see screenshot here: http://morgancollett.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/olpc-taskview.png http://morgancollett.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/olpc-taskvi...) so I don't know how much it prepares kids for using full blown computers.
- thwarted 17y ago
  Ah, the business case against alternative interfaces: if it doesn't encourage you to use Powerpoint and Excel, it's an empty experience.
  - SamAtt 17y ago
    The question was "Will this teach kids how to use computers" and my answer was "it's an alternative interface so not necessarily" So I don't see how your comment is relevant. Sure there are situations where an alternative interface is a good thing but not when you're stated goal is to teach kids how to use modern computers. When that's your goal you want to have an interface that resembles everything else that's out there and the simple truth is Windows, OS X and just about every variant of Linux have certain conventions (basically their shared Xerox Parc heritage) that aren't shared by the OLPC
    - jcl 17y ago
      Actually, there are not a lot of interface concepts that are common to Windows, Macintosh, and Linux that are not present in Sugar. Textboxes, buttons, scrollbars, dropdowns, icons, context menus, toolbars, etc. are all present. It even has alt-tab application switching. The major things that Sugar lacks from the common UI experience is overlapping windows and text-based menu bars, which are not difficult to learn once you have a solid understanding of the other stuff. (It's kind of funny: people argue for a traditional interface for OLPC to teach kids to use Office, while Office's new "ribbon" interface is arguably closer to the toolbar-based applications in Sugar than most other Windows applications.)
      - TomOfTTB 17y ago
        What interface doesn't have text boxes, scroll bars, etc…? Let me ask you this: Other than "to be clever" what's the point of creating an alternative interface in a device that's supposed to be a teaching machine? When we teach people to drive don't we use real cars? Would it make sense to use a car that had the brakes on the steering column but was the same as normal cars in every other way? Teaching isn't about inventing new things it's about finding a way to convey old things to people who don't understand them. P.S. The ribbon does in fact suck, you'll get no argument from me there.
        jcl 17y ago
        I think one of the big reasons for creating a new interface was that the XO's screen is really small -- it's about as wide as 1.5 times the largest dimension of an iPhone. While its resolution is roughly the same as a standard desktop, its pixels-per-inch is 2-3 times as high. This places screen real-estate at a premium... Essentially all applications will be running maximized, so title bars and other window decorations are a waste of space, as is having a menu/launching bar at the top or bottom of the screen. And due to the XO's high pixels-per-inch, all text needs to be roughly 2-3 times larger in pixels than on a traditional display. Many applications on existing systems do not cope well with this requirement; most of the X11 applications that have been minimally ported to Sugar have text that is illegibly small. The device's display is closer to a hand-held device than a typical laptop, so OLPC decided it needs a different UI than a typical laptop. And OLPC is not the only organization to make this choice: There are a number of manufacturers who are releasing Android-powered netbooks in the near future, as opposed to using more traditional UIs. Unfortunately, Android was not an option at the time the XO was being developed. I imagine Maemo or Qtopia were not chosen for either licensing or maturity concerns. Any of these options would probably have been an OK alternative to Sugar, but none of them is a traditional overlapping-windows interface.
    - thwarted 17y ago
      I'm not so sure that kids have problems with learning to use any technology, if they can get some use or fun out of it, so the whole "will this teach kids how to use computers" position is kind of irrelevant anyway. Chances are they'll be more proficient with whatever they are exposed to than adults would be.
    - TomOfTTB 17y ago
      For the record you should probably spell out what you're talking about when you say Xerox Parc. A lot of people were born post-Apple II so unless they study history they probably aren't going to know what you're talking about

SamAtt 17y ago

I'm not sure that's true, at least not with the OLPC. The OLPC doesn't resemble modern interfaces (see screenshot here: http://morgancollett.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/olpc-taskview.png http://morgancollett.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/olpc-taskvi...) so I don't know how much it prepares kids for using full blown computers.

thwarted 17y ago
Ah, the business case against alternative interfaces: if it doesn't encourage you to use Powerpoint and Excel, it's an empty experience.
- SamAtt 17y ago
  The question was "Will this teach kids how to use computers" and my answer was "it's an alternative interface so not necessarily" So I don't see how your comment is relevant. Sure there are situations where an alternative interface is a good thing but not when you're stated goal is to teach kids how to use modern computers. When that's your goal you want to have an interface that resembles everything else that's out there and the simple truth is Windows, OS X and just about every variant of Linux have certain conventions (basically their shared Xerox Parc heritage) that aren't shared by the OLPC
  - jcl 17y ago
    Actually, there are not a lot of interface concepts that are common to Windows, Macintosh, and Linux that are not present in Sugar. Textboxes, buttons, scrollbars, dropdowns, icons, context menus, toolbars, etc. are all present. It even has alt-tab application switching. The major things that Sugar lacks from the common UI experience is overlapping windows and text-based menu bars, which are not difficult to learn once you have a solid understanding of the other stuff. (It's kind of funny: people argue for a traditional interface for OLPC to teach kids to use Office, while Office's new "ribbon" interface is arguably closer to the toolbar-based applications in Sugar than most other Windows applications.)
    - TomOfTTB 17y ago
      What interface doesn't have text boxes, scroll bars, etc…? Let me ask you this: Other than "to be clever" what's the point of creating an alternative interface in a device that's supposed to be a teaching machine? When we teach people to drive don't we use real cars? Would it make sense to use a car that had the brakes on the steering column but was the same as normal cars in every other way? Teaching isn't about inventing new things it's about finding a way to convey old things to people who don't understand them. P.S. The ribbon does in fact suck, you'll get no argument from me there.
      - jcl 17y ago
        I think one of the big reasons for creating a new interface was that the XO's screen is really small -- it's about as wide as 1.5 times the largest dimension of an iPhone. While its resolution is roughly the same as a standard desktop, its pixels-per-inch is 2-3 times as high. This places screen real-estate at a premium... Essentially all applications will be running maximized, so title bars and other window decorations are a waste of space, as is having a menu/launching bar at the top or bottom of the screen. And due to the XO's high pixels-per-inch, all text needs to be roughly 2-3 times larger in pixels than on a traditional display. Many applications on existing systems do not cope well with this requirement; most of the X11 applications that have been minimally ported to Sugar have text that is illegibly small. The device's display is closer to a hand-held device than a typical laptop, so OLPC decided it needs a different UI than a typical laptop. And OLPC is not the only organization to make this choice: There are a number of manufacturers who are releasing Android-powered netbooks in the near future, as opposed to using more traditional UIs. Unfortunately, Android was not an option at the time the XO was being developed. I imagine Maemo or Qtopia were not chosen for either licensing or maturity concerns. Any of these options would probably have been an OK alternative to Sugar, but none of them is a traditional overlapping-windows interface.
  - thwarted 17y ago
    I'm not so sure that kids have problems with learning to use any technology, if they can get some use or fun out of it, so the whole "will this teach kids how to use computers" position is kind of irrelevant anyway. Chances are they'll be more proficient with whatever they are exposed to than adults would be.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    For the record you should probably spell out what you're talking about when you say Xerox Parc. A lot of people were born post-Apple II so unless they study history they probably aren't going to know what you're talking about