7 ms·

I think it a loss that a game with such original complexity has the most primitive graphics. Nobody wants 3D acceleration, but an upgrade to a simple 2D with sp

by coder23 12y ago

I think it a loss that a game with such original complexity has the most primitive graphics. Nobody wants 3D acceleration, but an upgrade to a simple 2D with sprites and effects with a better interface, would open it to a wider crowd.

na85 12y ago
Yep. Dwarf Fortress players seem to revel in the abhorrent UI. It's not even just the abysmal graphics, it's the arcane controls, too. A sane interface with even the most primitive 2D tile-based GUI would make Dwarf Fortress better by orders of magnitude.
- Lockyy 12y ago
  It really does suck how the game has no way to make the tiles easily understandable: http://i.imgur.com/KqHkn4z.png http://i.imgur.com/KqHkn4z.png The UI may be bad and need improvement (personally I find it no more complicated than any other CLI, even if it is a little inconsistent), but you can't complain about the default tile-set being ugly and unreadable and how "even the most primitive 2D tile-based GUI would make Dwarf Fortress better by orders of magnitude" when there is a rich and dedicated group of fans who pour a lot of time into making the game look, in a lot of cases, very nice. And as your sibling poster said, if you really cannot stand the 2d, there is Stonesense for rudimentary 3d graphics.
  - na85 12y ago
    That's a mod, is it not?
    - Lockyy 12y ago
      Yes. One bundled with every beginner's pack linked anywhere you'd learn how to play.
      - na85 12y ago
        Cool. Nice to see some fans are working to fix the game's awful interface.
      - im3w1l 12y ago
        Because people are complaining, not everyone seems to be understanding that they ought to download the beginners pack.
Mithaldu 12y ago
Both sprite mods and even isometric view are available. Tarn has made it possible for others to do this work and they did: http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/ http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/ http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Graphics_set_repository http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Graphics_set_repo...
duffdevice 12y ago
It's been said before, but in the opinion of many would-be DF players, it's really the interface that could use a massive amount of love. The ascii graphics may not be your cup of tea, but at least they would be functional if, IF the interface/controls/menu systems weren't all so horrible and obfuscated and totally inconsistent with each other. I've come to the conclusion that the developers get some sort of sick joy out of putting this incredible, tantalizing core out there but making it completely inaccessible to the average player. Maybe that's their strategy to weed out non-diehards until "it's ready".
- LanceH 12y ago
  All software is of the highest craftdwarfship.
Holbein 12y ago
The funny thing is, Dwarf Fortress is simulated in 3D. With the 3D viewer, you can even look at your terrain in 3D: http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/khyron2k/Dwarves/Dwarf_Dam.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/khyron2k/Dwarves/Dwar... If DF would look like that during gameplay, I'd immediately start playing.
- voronoff 12y ago
  You can play in Stonesense, though it's still early days yet and only works on the last patch. http://www.wired.com/2014/07/dwarf-fortress-3d/ http://www.wired.com/2014/07/dwarf-fortress-3d/
  - Holbein 12y ago
    Thanks for the link. While it does indeed looks nice, it's not what I had in mind. This is basically isometric 2D. You're looking at a plane. Things that rise up, like pillars, are not shown. You could not see that dam the way it really looks like in my linked picture.
    - voronoff 12y ago
      We're getting there. mifki's working on getting multilevel rendering for basic tilesets (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.105 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.105) and then that will be exploring 3d. Stonesense itself is headed in that direction, see the most recent forum page: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106497.1035 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106497.1035
- praptak 12y ago
  A good 3d GUI for DF would be challenging. Usually[1] most of the game takes place in corridors/caves that are underground, so the naive approach would have everything obfuscated by solid rock. [1] Obvious nitpick: some players do indeed challenge themselves to build everything above ground.
redblacktree 12y ago
You might be interested in Gnomoria[1]. It's not Dwarf Fortress, but is inspired by it. [1] http://gnomoria.com/ http://gnomoria.com/
- MrZongle2 12y ago
  Gnomoria is one of the few "early access" games on Steam that seem to be working out well, despite the effort being a one-man operation. If Dwarf Fortress seems too intimidating, Gnomoria is a good place to start. It doesn't have anywhere near the depth of DF, but many of the core concepts are the same. And it won't make your eyes bleed.
astrobe_ 12y ago
I don't want to sound harsh at all, but if someone can't get over the quirks of the UI and the abstract ASCII art, I think it's not the kind of person that will love the complexity of the game either. The UI of DF is actually a pons asinorum.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  Go is an incredibly complex game but its complexity is not arbitrary. DF has both go like depth complexity and arbitrary waste of time complexity. Many people like depth but don't like bad interfaces.

by coder23 12y ago

na85 12y ago

Yep. Dwarf Fortress players seem to revel in the abhorrent UI. It's not even just the abysmal graphics, it's the arcane controls, too. A sane interface with even the most primitive 2D tile-based GUI would make Dwarf Fortress better by orders of magnitude.

Lockyy 12y ago
It really does suck how the game has no way to make the tiles easily understandable: http://i.imgur.com/KqHkn4z.png http://i.imgur.com/KqHkn4z.png The UI may be bad and need improvement (personally I find it no more complicated than any other CLI, even if it is a little inconsistent), but you can't complain about the default tile-set being ugly and unreadable and how "even the most primitive 2D tile-based GUI would make Dwarf Fortress better by orders of magnitude" when there is a rich and dedicated group of fans who pour a lot of time into making the game look, in a lot of cases, very nice. And as your sibling poster said, if you really cannot stand the 2d, there is Stonesense for rudimentary 3d graphics.
- na85 12y ago
  That's a mod, is it not?
  - Lockyy 12y ago
    Yes. One bundled with every beginner's pack linked anywhere you'd learn how to play.
    - na85 12y ago
      Cool. Nice to see some fans are working to fix the game's awful interface.
    - im3w1l 12y ago
      Because people are complaining, not everyone seems to be understanding that they ought to download the beginners pack.

Mithaldu 12y ago

Both sprite mods and even isometric view are available. Tarn has made it possible for others to do this work and they did: http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/ http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/ http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Graphics_set_repository http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Graphics_set_repo...

duffdevice 12y ago

It's been said before, but in the opinion of many would-be DF players, it's really the interface that could use a massive amount of love. The ascii graphics may not be your cup of tea, but at least they would be functional if, IF the interface/controls/menu systems weren't all so horrible and obfuscated and totally inconsistent with each other. I've come to the conclusion that the developers get some sort of sick joy out of putting this incredible, tantalizing core out there but making it completely inaccessible to the average player. Maybe that's their strategy to weed out non-diehards until "it's ready".

LanceH 12y ago
All software is of the highest craftdwarfship.

Holbein 12y ago

The funny thing is, Dwarf Fortress is simulated in 3D. With the 3D viewer, you can even look at your terrain in 3D: http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/khyron2k/Dwarves/Dwarf_Dam.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/khyron2k/Dwarves/Dwar... If DF would look like that during gameplay, I'd immediately start playing.

voronoff 12y ago
You can play in Stonesense, though it's still early days yet and only works on the last patch. http://www.wired.com/2014/07/dwarf-fortress-3d/ http://www.wired.com/2014/07/dwarf-fortress-3d/
- Holbein 12y ago
  Thanks for the link. While it does indeed looks nice, it's not what I had in mind. This is basically isometric 2D. You're looking at a plane. Things that rise up, like pillars, are not shown. You could not see that dam the way it really looks like in my linked picture.
  - voronoff 12y ago
    We're getting there. mifki's working on getting multilevel rendering for basic tilesets (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.105 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.105) and then that will be exploring 3d. Stonesense itself is headed in that direction, see the most recent forum page: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106497.1035 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106497.1035
praptak 12y ago
A good 3d GUI for DF would be challenging. Usually[1] most of the game takes place in corridors/caves that are underground, so the naive approach would have everything obfuscated by solid rock. [1] Obvious nitpick: some players do indeed challenge themselves to build everything above ground.

redblacktree 12y ago

You might be interested in Gnomoria[1]. It's not Dwarf Fortress, but is inspired by it. [1] http://gnomoria.com/ http://gnomoria.com/

MrZongle2 12y ago
Gnomoria is one of the few "early access" games on Steam that seem to be working out well, despite the effort being a one-man operation. If Dwarf Fortress seems too intimidating, Gnomoria is a good place to start. It doesn't have anywhere near the depth of DF, but many of the core concepts are the same. And it won't make your eyes bleed.

astrobe_ 12y ago

I don't want to sound harsh at all, but if someone can't get over the quirks of the UI and the abstract ASCII art, I think it's not the kind of person that will love the complexity of the game either. The UI of DF is actually a pons asinorum.

seanflyon 12y ago
Go is an incredibly complex game but its complexity is not arbitrary. DF has both go like depth complexity and arbitrary waste of time complexity. Many people like depth but don't like bad interfaces.