8 ms·

Or, you know, leave everyone to their own devices, and let people choose the fields that engage them. Males and females are not equal, in metabolism, strength,

by drz 12y ago

Or, you know, leave everyone to their own devices, and let people choose the fields that engage them. Males and females are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else. They have equal rights, but this does not mean that they deserve equal representation in all fields. Those with the highest merit deserve representation. Trying to fight this simple fact is the height of folly.

sdfghhasdf 12y ago
amen.
tomp 12y ago
> Males and females are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else. More generally, people are not the same (I prefer "same" to "equal").
pokpokpok 12y ago
Or, you know, leave everyone to their own devices, and let people choose the fields that engage them. blacks and whites are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else. They have equal rights, but this does not mean that they deserve equal representation in all fields. Those with the highest merit deserve representation. Trying to fight this simple fact is the height of folly.
- sdfghhasdf 12y ago
  amen.
- drz 12y ago
  Sure. West Africans are very successful in all forms of running, for example. Are you going to deny this?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ambrice 12y ago
How will they know if the field engages them without being exposed to it?
- drz 12y ago
  None of us here got recruited into the field, and we still found out that it engaged us, didn't we?
  - sp332 12y ago
    I got recruited. 4 times. I'd rather be a doctor, but that seems intimidating and I don't see a way to "break into" it.
    - drz 12y ago
      Show me these magical affirmative action programs targeting straight white men.
steveklabnik 12y ago
Until you've demonstrated programming has some biological basis, this 'argument' is absolutely ridiculous.
- crazy1van 12y ago
  I think it's less about ability and more about interest.
  - sp332 12y ago
    Right, that's what this fixes.
    - drz 12y ago
      No, it isn't. You can't dictate interest.
      - sp332 12y ago
        It is trivially easy to influence interest. http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/06/25/more-women-pick-computer-science-if-media-nix-outdated-nerd-stereotype/ http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/06/25/more-women-pick-co...
        drz 12y ago
        This study is about stereotypes, not interest, not merit, not anything that's actually relevant. You know what shows interest? A female willingly taking and passing CS courses. Not this bullshit.
        sp332 12y ago
        What you need is a study showing how many women showed interest and then were talked out of it. http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156664337/stereotype-threat-why-women-quit-science-jobs http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156664337/stereotype-threat-wh...
rflrob 12y ago
While it's true that women and men aren't the same, I think that there are good reasons to believe the level of inequality we have now is not due solely to natural inclination. This video of Neil deGrasse Tyson on minorities and science is apropos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ihNLEDiuM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ihNLEDiuM
sp332 12y ago
leave everyone to their own devices Tons of men are recruited to the field, why not women?
- drz 12y ago
  Show me these magical affirmative action programs targeting straight white men.
  - sp332 12y ago
    They're not magical. http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/women-still-have-to-prove-themselves-in-academic-hiring/77899695/ http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/women-sti... You don't need individual programs for men, it's the default. http://jonathanherzog.com/node/129 http://jonathanherzog.com/node/129 General trends http://www.businessinsider.com/7-things-keeping-women-out-of-science-2013-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/7-things-keeping-women-out-of... Specific incidents http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents
    - drz 12y ago
      You do need individual programs for men as a valid counterpart for individual programs for women. Where are they?
      - sp332 12y ago
        I don't need an individual program for men because the industry is a mass program for men. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/09/19/scientists-your-gender-bias-is-showing/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/09/19/...
        drz 12y ago
        So you can't deliver on your claim at all. You can't show any individual program for men, because there is no individual program for men. You lose by default. Thanks for your time.
Zelphyr 12y ago
I believe the sentiment is to at least expose girls to these fields more than we have. Whether they enter them as a career is of course their choice.
- drz 12y ago
  The field isn't hidden. It's already exposed to males and females in equivalent amounts.

by drz 12y ago

sdfghhasdf 12y ago

amen.

tomp 12y ago

> Males and females are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else. More generally, people are not the same (I prefer "same" to "equal").

pokpokpok 12y ago

Or, you know, leave everyone to their own devices, and let people choose the fields that engage them. blacks and whites are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else. They have equal rights, but this does not mean that they deserve equal representation in all fields. Those with the highest merit deserve representation. Trying to fight this simple fact is the height of folly.

sdfghhasdf 12y ago
amen.
drz 12y ago
Sure. West Africans are very successful in all forms of running, for example. Are you going to deny this?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ambrice 12y ago

How will they know if the field engages them without being exposed to it?

drz 12y ago
None of us here got recruited into the field, and we still found out that it engaged us, didn't we?
- sp332 12y ago
  I got recruited. 4 times. I'd rather be a doctor, but that seems intimidating and I don't see a way to "break into" it.
  - drz 12y ago
    Show me these magical affirmative action programs targeting straight white men.

steveklabnik 12y ago

Until you've demonstrated programming has some biological basis, this 'argument' is absolutely ridiculous.

crazy1van 12y ago
I think it's less about ability and more about interest.
- sp332 12y ago
  Right, that's what this fixes.
  - drz 12y ago
    No, it isn't. You can't dictate interest.
    - sp332 12y ago
      It is trivially easy to influence interest. http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/06/25/more-women-pick-computer-science-if-media-nix-outdated-nerd-stereotype/ http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/06/25/more-women-pick-co...
      - drz 12y ago
        This study is about stereotypes, not interest, not merit, not anything that's actually relevant. You know what shows interest? A female willingly taking and passing CS courses. Not this bullshit.
        sp332 12y ago
        What you need is a study showing how many women showed interest and then were talked out of it. http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156664337/stereotype-threat-why-women-quit-science-jobs http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156664337/stereotype-threat-wh...

rflrob 12y ago

While it's true that women and men aren't the same, I think that there are good reasons to believe the level of inequality we have now is not due solely to natural inclination. This video of Neil deGrasse Tyson on minorities and science is apropos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ihNLEDiuM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ihNLEDiuM

sp332 12y ago

leave everyone to their own devices Tons of men are recruited to the field, why not women?

drz 12y ago
Show me these magical affirmative action programs targeting straight white men.
- sp332 12y ago
  They're not magical. http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/women-still-have-to-prove-themselves-in-academic-hiring/77899695/ http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/women-sti... You don't need individual programs for men, it's the default. http://jonathanherzog.com/node/129 http://jonathanherzog.com/node/129 General trends http://www.businessinsider.com/7-things-keeping-women-out-of-science-2013-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/7-things-keeping-women-out-of... Specific incidents http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents
  - drz 12y ago
    You do need individual programs for men as a valid counterpart for individual programs for women. Where are they?
    - sp332 12y ago
      I don't need an individual program for men because the industry is a mass program for men. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/09/19/scientists-your-gender-bias-is-showing/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/09/19/...
      - drz 12y ago
        So you can't deliver on your claim at all. You can't show any individual program for men, because there is no individual program for men. You lose by default. Thanks for your time.

Zelphyr 12y ago

I believe the sentiment is to at least expose girls to these fields more than we have. Whether they enter them as a career is of course their choice.

drz 12y ago
The field isn't hidden. It's already exposed to males and females in equivalent amounts.