6 ms·

Well deserved. Their chip is practically the only chip that works and can be easily integrated into arduino boards.

sputknick 12y ago
Can you explain in more detail how well it works with Arduino? Could I take 3 arduino components and 3 spark components and have them integrate to do something useful?
- bravo22 12y ago
  No. The spark dev kit includes an STM32F microcontroller. You can think of this as kinda like your Arduino. You can write programs for it, but you'd have to use their online IDE I think since Arduino native doesn't support STM32F. It is basically an Arduino dev kit w/ the WiFi module integrated. If you want to use an existing Arduino shield you'd have to buy their Shield Shield which you can plug your spark core into and then plug in the other Arduino shield.
bravo22 12y ago
They don't make a chip. They use a CC3000 from TI -- which costs about $10 -- and provide a thing wrapper around TI's own provided driver. You can take the same CC3000 from TI -- around $11 in low volume -- put it on your board and write your software with their driver. They basically make a good dev board but for anyone wanting to make anything in a volume beyond 1K they'd use the TI module directly. You don't put a dev board in an end product. I fail to see how their business is going to scale beyond this.
- jenesaisdiq 12y ago
  The main product isn't the board -- CC3000+STM32 -- but rather the glorious and inscrutable cloud service that goes with it. The board designs are even being given away for free, it's OSHW.
  - bravo22 12y ago
    Their cloud software is also open sourced, and based on IEFT CoAp[1]. I see this being useful for a newbie maker, but for product shipping in any volume you'd integrate the CC3K directly ($11 vs $39) and you'd host the cloud server yourself, or pay them a nominal fee. I am not seeing a cloud "operating system". Maybe I'm missing something?? But most of the magic is the cloud app that each device maker writes that does the heavy lifting, and that's pure web service; i.e. if it's X o'clock send command to turn on the sprinklers, unless it is raining in the user's zip code. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-18 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-18
    - jenesaisdiq 12y ago
      The OS part is that you're running the Spark firmware to manage comms and security, which talks to the Spark Cloud and makes the rest of it easy. Building the cloud app to be fast, stable, scalable, and secure from scratch is difficult, so this is a SaaS play. Plus, how are you going to manage your 100,000 devices in the field? With Spark you can even do it all with API calls. and, uh, cough I just joined Spark as well...
      - middleca 12y ago
        oh hey! :)
- hashmymustache 12y ago
  They recognize that it's more for prototyping and wouldn't be used at a production level: "We use industry-standard components — chosen to be powerful, inexpensive, and widely available — that can be designed directly onto your own circuit board, bringing your Bill of Materials down for volume production."
  - middleca 12y ago
    Hi All, (full disclosure, I work at Spark) We tried hard to make sure the components on the Spark Core dev kit are really easy to source and buy in low quantities, so you can build the board yourself if you really want. Large companies often already have their own supply chain, so this makes things much easier for them, but you can also buy in bulk and get great discounts if you're a startup or building in lower volumes. :) Thanks, David
  - bravo22 12y ago
    Right, I agree. That is what I gathered before but the article and their new splash page makes it seem like they want to supply this to large device makers (i.e. anyone not building things out of their basement) and I don't see how this could work. They can't make money on the hardware, because TI makes the chip and provides the reference design and drivers for free. Spark boards are all OSHW anyways. You'd spend the extra week and integrate the TI part into your device anyways. Their cloud stack is open source, and is basically a transport. As the device maker you'd still have to write the cloud app that gathers data from different points and sends commands to the end unit. Beyond the dev kits I'm having a hard time seeing the revenue stream and/or value proposition. What am I missing? Maybe guys from Spark want to chime in? If I use Spark to prototype, is there a product they are offering me that I would need to pay for at scale?
    - middleca 12y ago
      Hi bravo22, I'm from Spark, and I can try to answer! :) With more than 20,000 units in the field, the Spark community is the largest consumer of the CC3000 module, so you get the benefits of driver testing and patches, and great community support. Large businesses could certainly use the open source modules and run with them, but if you're a large business you generally want to pay for support and licensing. Next for us is building a suite of fleet management tools and controls that larger companies want that also benefit hobbyists. If you're a business or a maker, using the Spark Cloud saves you from having to worry about building your own protocol, dealing with socket programming, spinning up servers, as well as worrying about encryption on microcontrollers, or wearing a pager. Having the source code available means you can keep your private things private by not going over the internet, as well as building things we haven't thought of yet. Thanks! David
jenesaisdiq 12y ago
The Spark Core works as a standalone microcontroller (like an Arduino) and a WiFi connection (quite unlike an Arduino). All you need is Spark.
avidan 12y ago
< disclosure, i run the firm that lead this series A > if you mean integrating into Arduino shields, then YES, absolutely. the beauty of Spark is that it you can program using Wiring (the same language as arduino), so a lot of the example sketchs and libraries are easily transportable. So basically, if you love an arduino shield, you can prototype using this (http://www.makershed.com/products/shield-shield http://www.makershed.com/products/shield-shield) then you port the library over to spark's cloud, and you have a wifi enabled Arduino Shield! once your prototype is where you want it, you can roll-up a version of that shield with the spark components built on the board. because the reference design of the spark core is open, its actually quite easy (assuming your shield's schematic is available). and when you are ready for production, getting the cc3000 and stm32 is as easy as throwing a rock down the street in shenzen. i could not be more excited about leading the investment in spark....and building products at home on the platform. im not just the investor, im also a member.

Can you explain in more detail how well it works with Arduino? Could I take 3 arduino components and 3 spark components and have them integrate to do something useful?

bravo22 12y ago
No. The spark dev kit includes an STM32F microcontroller. You can think of this as kinda like your Arduino. You can write programs for it, but you'd have to use their online IDE I think since Arduino native doesn't support STM32F. It is basically an Arduino dev kit w/ the WiFi module integrated. If you want to use an existing Arduino shield you'd have to buy their Shield Shield which you can plug your spark core into and then plug in the other Arduino shield.

bravo22 12y ago

They don't make a chip. They use a CC3000 from TI -- which costs about $10 -- and provide a thing wrapper around TI's own provided driver. You can take the same CC3000 from TI -- around $11 in low volume -- put it on your board and write your software with their driver. They basically make a good dev board but for anyone wanting to make anything in a volume beyond 1K they'd use the TI module directly. You don't put a dev board in an end product. I fail to see how their business is going to scale beyond this.

jenesaisdiq 12y ago
The main product isn't the board -- CC3000+STM32 -- but rather the glorious and inscrutable cloud service that goes with it. The board designs are even being given away for free, it's OSHW.
- bravo22 12y ago
  Their cloud software is also open sourced, and based on IEFT CoAp[1]. I see this being useful for a newbie maker, but for product shipping in any volume you'd integrate the CC3K directly ($11 vs $39) and you'd host the cloud server yourself, or pay them a nominal fee. I am not seeing a cloud "operating system". Maybe I'm missing something?? But most of the magic is the cloud app that each device maker writes that does the heavy lifting, and that's pure web service; i.e. if it's X o'clock send command to turn on the sprinklers, unless it is raining in the user's zip code. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-18 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-18
  - jenesaisdiq 12y ago
    The OS part is that you're running the Spark firmware to manage comms and security, which talks to the Spark Cloud and makes the rest of it easy. Building the cloud app to be fast, stable, scalable, and secure from scratch is difficult, so this is a SaaS play. Plus, how are you going to manage your 100,000 devices in the field? With Spark you can even do it all with API calls. and, uh, cough I just joined Spark as well...
    - middleca 12y ago
      oh hey! :)
hashmymustache 12y ago
They recognize that it's more for prototyping and wouldn't be used at a production level: "We use industry-standard components — chosen to be powerful, inexpensive, and widely available — that can be designed directly onto your own circuit board, bringing your Bill of Materials down for volume production."
- middleca 12y ago
  Hi All, (full disclosure, I work at Spark) We tried hard to make sure the components on the Spark Core dev kit are really easy to source and buy in low quantities, so you can build the board yourself if you really want. Large companies often already have their own supply chain, so this makes things much easier for them, but you can also buy in bulk and get great discounts if you're a startup or building in lower volumes. :) Thanks, David
- bravo22 12y ago
  Right, I agree. That is what I gathered before but the article and their new splash page makes it seem like they want to supply this to large device makers (i.e. anyone not building things out of their basement) and I don't see how this could work. They can't make money on the hardware, because TI makes the chip and provides the reference design and drivers for free. Spark boards are all OSHW anyways. You'd spend the extra week and integrate the TI part into your device anyways. Their cloud stack is open source, and is basically a transport. As the device maker you'd still have to write the cloud app that gathers data from different points and sends commands to the end unit. Beyond the dev kits I'm having a hard time seeing the revenue stream and/or value proposition. What am I missing? Maybe guys from Spark want to chime in? If I use Spark to prototype, is there a product they are offering me that I would need to pay for at scale?
  - middleca 12y ago
    Hi bravo22, I'm from Spark, and I can try to answer! :) With more than 20,000 units in the field, the Spark community is the largest consumer of the CC3000 module, so you get the benefits of driver testing and patches, and great community support. Large businesses could certainly use the open source modules and run with them, but if you're a large business you generally want to pay for support and licensing. Next for us is building a suite of fleet management tools and controls that larger companies want that also benefit hobbyists. If you're a business or a maker, using the Spark Cloud saves you from having to worry about building your own protocol, dealing with socket programming, spinning up servers, as well as worrying about encryption on microcontrollers, or wearing a pager. Having the source code available means you can keep your private things private by not going over the internet, as well as building things we haven't thought of yet. Thanks! David

jenesaisdiq 12y ago

The Spark Core works as a standalone microcontroller (like an Arduino) and a WiFi connection (quite unlike an Arduino). All you need is Spark.

avidan 12y ago

< disclosure, i run the firm that lead this series A > if you mean integrating into Arduino shields, then YES, absolutely. the beauty of Spark is that it you can program using Wiring (the same language as arduino), so a lot of the example sketchs and libraries are easily transportable. So basically, if you love an arduino shield, you can prototype using this (http://www.makershed.com/products/shield-shield http://www.makershed.com/products/shield-shield) then you port the library over to spark's cloud, and you have a wifi enabled Arduino Shield! once your prototype is where you want it, you can roll-up a version of that shield with the spark components built on the board. because the reference design of the spark core is open, its actually quite easy (assuming your shield's schematic is available). and when you are ready for production, getting the cc3000 and stm32 is as easy as throwing a rock down the street in shenzen. i could not be more excited about leading the investment in spark....and building products at home on the platform. im not just the investor, im also a member.