6 ms·

I'm very happy to see people working 16-25 hour work weeks, and it's probably very good for their personal life. Just one question, don't you feel guilty going

I'm very happy to see people working 16-25 hour work weeks, and it's probably very good for their personal life. Just one question, don't you feel guilty going like that? I'd feel guilty, as if life gave me this time to get as much work done as I can, and I just don't. I know, I know, weird question. But I'm serious.

coldtea 12y ago
>Just one question, don't you feel guilty going like that? I'd feel guilty, as if life gave me this time to get as much work done as I can, and I just don't. Life gave you time to live. Not to get "work done". Especially the bullshit kind of non essential busy work most people in the West do. Now, if you built houses or basic infrastructure, or were a doctor that'd be something different. The nth BS enterprise CRUD app, or some BS social service? Not so important in the grand scheme of things.
surreal 12y ago
This is an interesting point, but it assumes that one's 'purpose' in life is to work. That's a pretty sweeping assumption, and one which the guilt is predicated on. Any idea why you feel this way? Would it not be just as valid to say that one's purpose in life might be, for example, enjoyment? Or helping others (not necessarily through a job)? In which case you should feel pretty guilty about going to work for 40 of your precious hours each week..! I'm certainly not saying there's a right answer here, by the way.
- PeterGriffin 12y ago
  I'm not sure it's bad to feel guilty about this. I'm more interested how people who don't feel guilty see life. I mean surely at some point having aimless fun starts looking a bit like wasted time in someone's life, no? We live to give our tiny contribution to humanity, and we do it by creating something through work. That also brings joy, and we do it to help each other (deviations notwithstanding). But it's a meaningful joy. If I'd work 16 hours a week all my life, I'd have some serious regrets on my death bed.
  - duckmysick 12y ago
    Isn't that a slippery slope? Even if you worked a "proper" 40-hour week you could always ask yourself why don't you devote 41 (or 42, 43, and so on) hours per week for work. One could argue that your productivity plummets as you work more hours, but in absolute terms you're still getting more work done. Also, consider this: instead of having two people work 20 hours a week we're having one person working 40. Shouldn't that person feel guilty about taking the opportunity to contribute and being valued from somebody else? As for creating contribution through work - are we talking about salaried work? What about volunteer work then? If by work we mean anything that adds value whether we get paid for it or not, it's not always so obvious. The lines between enjoyable hobby and work are blurry at times and an author who writes for fun could end up creating a piece which inspires millions. In the quest for maximizing collective productivity of the humanity we could start introducing teenagers into workforce as soon as possible and scrap the retirement age. Maybe we could even leave out one or two public holidays and add couple of work hours on Saturdays. Some would complain, sure, but overall we would become more productive. Personally, I don't think that's the way to go. 40-hour work week is a relic of the 19th century and time is a poor indicator of productive contribution.
    - PeterGriffin 12y ago
      Well, it's a U shaped slope, because at some point you become less productive, not more productive as you add time. So it's about finding one's balance. If someone's balance is 16 hours a week, so be it. I just find it a bit unlikely though.
  - yojo 12y ago
    tl;dr: I don't want to work 16 hours a week and then sit on my hands for the other 30. I want to work 16 hours a week and devote the rest of my time doing things that enrich myself and my community in a tangible way. I've worked for Google, Salesforce, and an early stage startup. In none of these companies did I feel like I was making a meaningful contribution to humanity. Either the product was of unclear societal value (Enterprise CRM), the work was so far removed from the value that the link to benefit was tenuous at best (second tier technical support for AdWords), or the ultimate results were no value generated (early stage startup where we scrapped everything after 20 months of development). I've also taken gaps between jobs to focus on my own goals. In my free time I have volunteered with local food related organizations (serving meals in a soup kitchen, tending a community garden, etc), developed an iOS app used by 3,000+ artists, and bolstered my relationships with my wife and family. I've also taught myself several programming languages, enriched my world view through extensive travel and reading, and improved my personal well being through exercise. In my opinion the contributions I've made through these "non-work" experiences and projects dwarf anything I've done working 50 hours/week for a salary. It's possible that there's a job out there that would pay a decent salary and give me a similar sense of having made a contribution, but I haven't found it yet. I recently co-founded an ed-tech startup with this goal in mind, but time will tell if I'm able to move any needles.
scarecrowbob 12y ago
No. There is always some worse condition that I could work under. Most of the crap that I do for money is very useful to other folks, and totally useless to me. And for what it's worth, it's not like I spend the other hours in the week looking at porn or playing games... I work on getting better at playing music, raise my kids, and enjoy my time with my wife. Why should I feel guilty that I spend more time doing things that are meaningful to me and the people around me instead of pursuing money, which is the alternative?

coldtea 12y ago

>Just one question, don't you feel guilty going like that? I'd feel guilty, as if life gave me this time to get as much work done as I can, and I just don't. Life gave you time to live. Not to get "work done". Especially the bullshit kind of non essential busy work most people in the West do. Now, if you built houses or basic infrastructure, or were a doctor that'd be something different. The nth BS enterprise CRUD app, or some BS social service? Not so important in the grand scheme of things.

surreal 12y ago

This is an interesting point, but it assumes that one's 'purpose' in life is to work. That's a pretty sweeping assumption, and one which the guilt is predicated on. Any idea why you feel this way? Would it not be just as valid to say that one's purpose in life might be, for example, enjoyment? Or helping others (not necessarily through a job)? In which case you should feel pretty guilty about going to work for 40 of your precious hours each week..! I'm certainly not saying there's a right answer here, by the way.

PeterGriffin 12y ago
I'm not sure it's bad to feel guilty about this. I'm more interested how people who don't feel guilty see life. I mean surely at some point having aimless fun starts looking a bit like wasted time in someone's life, no? We live to give our tiny contribution to humanity, and we do it by creating something through work. That also brings joy, and we do it to help each other (deviations notwithstanding). But it's a meaningful joy. If I'd work 16 hours a week all my life, I'd have some serious regrets on my death bed.
- duckmysick 12y ago
  Isn't that a slippery slope? Even if you worked a "proper" 40-hour week you could always ask yourself why don't you devote 41 (or 42, 43, and so on) hours per week for work. One could argue that your productivity plummets as you work more hours, but in absolute terms you're still getting more work done. Also, consider this: instead of having two people work 20 hours a week we're having one person working 40. Shouldn't that person feel guilty about taking the opportunity to contribute and being valued from somebody else? As for creating contribution through work - are we talking about salaried work? What about volunteer work then? If by work we mean anything that adds value whether we get paid for it or not, it's not always so obvious. The lines between enjoyable hobby and work are blurry at times and an author who writes for fun could end up creating a piece which inspires millions. In the quest for maximizing collective productivity of the humanity we could start introducing teenagers into workforce as soon as possible and scrap the retirement age. Maybe we could even leave out one or two public holidays and add couple of work hours on Saturdays. Some would complain, sure, but overall we would become more productive. Personally, I don't think that's the way to go. 40-hour work week is a relic of the 19th century and time is a poor indicator of productive contribution.
  - PeterGriffin 12y ago
    Well, it's a U shaped slope, because at some point you become less productive, not more productive as you add time. So it's about finding one's balance. If someone's balance is 16 hours a week, so be it. I just find it a bit unlikely though.
- yojo 12y ago
  tl;dr: I don't want to work 16 hours a week and then sit on my hands for the other 30. I want to work 16 hours a week and devote the rest of my time doing things that enrich myself and my community in a tangible way. I've worked for Google, Salesforce, and an early stage startup. In none of these companies did I feel like I was making a meaningful contribution to humanity. Either the product was of unclear societal value (Enterprise CRM), the work was so far removed from the value that the link to benefit was tenuous at best (second tier technical support for AdWords), or the ultimate results were no value generated (early stage startup where we scrapped everything after 20 months of development). I've also taken gaps between jobs to focus on my own goals. In my free time I have volunteered with local food related organizations (serving meals in a soup kitchen, tending a community garden, etc), developed an iOS app used by 3,000+ artists, and bolstered my relationships with my wife and family. I've also taught myself several programming languages, enriched my world view through extensive travel and reading, and improved my personal well being through exercise. In my opinion the contributions I've made through these "non-work" experiences and projects dwarf anything I've done working 50 hours/week for a salary. It's possible that there's a job out there that would pay a decent salary and give me a similar sense of having made a contribution, but I haven't found it yet. I recently co-founded an ed-tech startup with this goal in mind, but time will tell if I'm able to move any needles.

scarecrowbob 12y ago

No. There is always some worse condition that I could work under. Most of the crap that I do for money is very useful to other folks, and totally useless to me. And for what it's worth, it's not like I spend the other hours in the week looking at porn or playing games... I work on getting better at playing music, raise my kids, and enjoy my time with my wife. Why should I feel guilty that I spend more time doing things that are meaningful to me and the people around me instead of pursuing money, which is the alternative?