7 ms·

First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

158 points by rberger 12y ago

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
vitno 12y ago
Site is down for me. Text: By Robert J Berger, on July 5th, 2014 First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Whistleblower. Then they came for the Boing Boing Readers, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Boing Boing Reader. Then they came for the Linux Users, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Linux User. Then they came for people who mocked the NSA, and I did not speak out— Because I was not mocking the NSA. Then they came for the Jews (they always eventually come for the Jews even when Jews think they are mainstream), and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak for me.
jmadsen 12y ago
Cached: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i-hXFA0yGi0J:blog.ibd.com/how-the-world-works/first-they-came-for-the-whistleblowers-and-i-did-not-speak-out/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i-hXFA0...
sage_joch 12y ago
The Snowden documents revealed that Germans visiting the Tor project website would be subject to permanent NSA surveillance. Does that make you more or less likely to click the link below? If the answer is "less likely", how does it feel to be intimidated out of your free expression? https://www.torproject.org/ https://www.torproject.org/
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- n09n 12y ago
  How is clicking on a link to a project you have no interest in "free expression"?
  - drcode 12y ago
    "I can click on it any time I want, I just choose not to."
    - n09n 12y ago
      And whether you do or not, how is that expressing yourself? Are you expressing yourself when you brush your teeth or take a piss in the morning too?
- pcl 12y ago
  That thought went through my head regarding the XKeyScore link as well. I clicked both that link and your Tor link.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- leapinglemur55 12y ago
  The average person just doesn't care, and anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is labelled a conspiracy nut and ignored. The only response they give to finding out that the government knows their exact gps location 24 hours a day and can listen to any and all of their communications is "So what?" Companies like Foursquare exist because people not only don't care about issues like this, but are actively trying to help them.
- drcode 12y ago
  As an American, I don't think there's a way to stop this through the democratic process: If a whistle blower publishes details showing the government is running "Project X", and we "kick the bastards out" that authorized it via the ballot process, and the government shuts down "Project X" as a result, all the NSA needs to do is rename it "Project Y". I'm seriously at a loss as to what to do about this problem.
  - Cyther606 12y ago
    Let's fund a pay-per-install Tor Browser program. It would start by paying ISP techs BTC to install Tor Browser on every customer's computer indiscriminately. Maybe even make Tor start up in the background. If everyone is using Tor all the time, nobody is suspicious, and we can go back to having relative free speech on the Internet at least.
  - Lrigikithumer 12y ago
    Take to the streets then, peaceful protest, make noise, make it aware to every man woman and child that this is an important issue, that your freedom is something you value. Peaceful assembly with a forceful message is one of the only ways this can be changed, Americans need to stand up and be heard or it's only ever going to get worse.
    - elliotec 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
thekingshorses 12y ago
Cached: http://hn.premii.com/#/article/7993426/first-they-came-for-the-whistleblowers-and-i-did-not-speak-out http://hn.premii.com/#/article/7993426/first-they-came-for-t...
chx 12y ago
There's a bigger problem today: I did speak out. Perhaps you did too. You tweeted, retweeted, commented, blogged etc. Noone cared. What now?
- Taek 12y ago
  "Like this post if you pray for cancer victims" I would like to suggest that voting provides a way out. If the NSA had a smaller budget, things might be better. If every branch of our military had a smaller budget, things might be better. Congressmen do listen to us, and if collectively we spoke against the military, there might be success. Honestly I have no idea how to fight politically. I think we all feel powerless. But there are some things you can do. You can run a tor relay node. You can learn about these technologies and help development efforts. You can participate with Freenode and I2P. You can encrypt all of your connections end-to-end and avoid services that are known to cooperate with 3 letter agencies. But no matter what angle you pick, you're going to be fighting up hill. It's going to suck, and you aren't going to feel like you're making any progress on your own. But if enough of us rally behind the technologies that protect our rights as human beings, then maybe we can reverse the tide.
  - smacktoward 12y ago
    I would tend to agree, but voting is just the first rung of what you might think of as a ladder of commitment: Voting Organizing others Donating money to fund full-time campaigners Volunteering for leadership positions/running for office Each step on the ladder requires more commitment, and will therefore be taken by fewer people. But to succeed, a movement needs all of them. If you vote, and nothing changes, and you're asking what comes next, maybe you're ready to move to the next rung. Start a meetup in your community. Give to the EFF or the ACLU. Run for office yourself, or identify a good person who should be running and help them do so.
  - chx 12y ago
    > Congressmen do listen to us Where did you get a nonsensical idea like that? Maybe in a few years if https://mayday.us/ https://mayday.us/ succeeds. But right now.... nope.
js2 12y ago
In case someone doesn't know the reference: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_....
socrates1998 12y ago
I think most people feel powerless, either financially or technically. Many people I know think what the NSA is doing is completely wrong, but they have problems logging into facebook and getting their email to work, they just feel powerless because they don't understand the technology behind the world they live in. How can they stand up to something they can't even begin to comprehend? The NSA could literally do anything they wanted to most people and they wouldn't even know about it. And then we have a much smaller group of people in the tech industry (most people who frequent Hacker News), who know what the NSA is doing is horribly horribly wrong, but are afraid of being destroyed financially, socially, and professionally for standing up to them. It feels like swimming up a waterfall. The NSA can so easily ruin lives by planting illegal material on your computer, then tip off the local cops who get a search warrant, then they seize your computer and find the illegal material on your computer. And you life is ruined. I mean, they are so powerful technologically speaking, they can ruin lives without so much as lifting a finger. It's very scary and very real.
- pwelch 12y ago
  Your post summarized all of my thoughts. Could not agree more.
- Riseed 12y ago
  I agree, but wanted to add: For many people, law enforcement doesn't even have to bother planting illegal material. They only have to twist the description of a target's behavior until it fits the requirements for violating a law (e.g. CFAA[1]), or catch the target committing any of the other federal crimes[2] he/she unknowingly commits on a regular basis. [1] Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act or EFF: https://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act_%28CFAA%29 https://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act_%... [2] The many failed efforts to count nation's federal criminal laws: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304319804576389601079728920 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230431980...
- stillsut 12y ago
  1. Couldn't a random hacker do that? Or a hacker affiliated with a private institution (e.g. News of the World)? 2. There's this terrible virus going around that locks you out of your PC or server meaning you lose all your data unless you pay the ransom of $500 in bitcoins. With this new trend in un-regulated crypto-currency, this scam cannot be stopped through the traditional means - financial/bank account freezes. Does this give any privacy proponents pause for thought? Also there's the old hack your webcam and blackmail you which has led people to commit suicide. Again, malicious hackers, not a gov't conspiracy There's actually a reason we've given power to police/enforcers in every aspect of life: because criminals are ruthless and prey on the innocent and gullible - physically, financially, and of course, now cyber-ly. 3. You've actually started to glean the important point in how we deal with cyber evidence as a society. Nobody's life has ever been ruined by getting put into an internal watch-list. But when list become enforceable (like the No-Fly list, or the McCarthy-era communist list) then lives are ruined. This is similar to your point about planting evidence: when the local police and prosecutor get brought into it, lives are at stake. I again wonder though why a spy agency would need to hack evidence onto your computer when they could simply plant in your house; that has happend thousands of times by dirty street cops, while your example - being carried out by a gov't agency - has never been reported to happen even once.
bithive123 12y ago
I should not need to remind this crowd but if anyone feels doubt over what can and must be done, simply search YouTube for "Eben Moglen"; you can't go wrong.
jaekwon 12y ago
There is always a counter movement. It's going on right now, but for obvious reasons they don't make themselves known. Find each other.
paulhauggis 12y ago
Look at all of the people that have gotten fired (or lost their careers) for things they said or did in their private time over the past year. The firings were brought on by mob mentality on Twitter and Facebook with no judge or jury. All to silence opposing view points. If such behavior is accepted as normal, why is it any surprise that our government is doing the same thing..and worse? Big brother is here, and it's us. I'm glad I learned early on to stay anonymous on the Internet.
transfire 12y ago
The second to last line betrays a misunderstanding of the current order of things. (Unless the writer thinks it is the Muslims or the KKK that are coming for us.) Jews in general are no longer the victims.
- amjaeger 12y ago
  This is a poem from the holocaust First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

158 points by rberger 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

vitno 12y ago

Site is down for me. Text: By Robert J Berger, on July 5th, 2014 First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Whistleblower. Then they came for the Boing Boing Readers, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Boing Boing Reader. Then they came for the Linux Users, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Linux User. Then they came for people who mocked the NSA, and I did not speak out— Because I was not mocking the NSA. Then they came for the Jews (they always eventually come for the Jews even when Jews think they are mainstream), and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak for me.

jmadsen 12y ago

Cached: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i-hXFA0yGi0J:blog.ibd.com/how-the-world-works/first-they-came-for-the-whistleblowers-and-i-did-not-speak-out/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:i-hXFA0...

sage_joch 12y ago

The Snowden documents revealed that Germans visiting the Tor project website would be subject to permanent NSA surveillance. Does that make you more or less likely to click the link below? If the answer is "less likely", how does it feel to be intimidated out of your free expression? https://www.torproject.org/ https://www.torproject.org/

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
n09n 12y ago
How is clicking on a link to a project you have no interest in "free expression"?
- drcode 12y ago
  "I can click on it any time I want, I just choose not to."
  - n09n 12y ago
    And whether you do or not, how is that expressing yourself? Are you expressing yourself when you brush your teeth or take a piss in the morning too?
pcl 12y ago
That thought went through my head regarding the XKeyScore link as well. I clicked both that link and your Tor link.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

leapinglemur55 12y ago
The average person just doesn't care, and anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is labelled a conspiracy nut and ignored. The only response they give to finding out that the government knows their exact gps location 24 hours a day and can listen to any and all of their communications is "So what?" Companies like Foursquare exist because people not only don't care about issues like this, but are actively trying to help them.
drcode 12y ago
As an American, I don't think there's a way to stop this through the democratic process: If a whistle blower publishes details showing the government is running "Project X", and we "kick the bastards out" that authorized it via the ballot process, and the government shuts down "Project X" as a result, all the NSA needs to do is rename it "Project Y". I'm seriously at a loss as to what to do about this problem.
- Cyther606 12y ago
  Let's fund a pay-per-install Tor Browser program. It would start by paying ISP techs BTC to install Tor Browser on every customer's computer indiscriminately. Maybe even make Tor start up in the background. If everyone is using Tor all the time, nobody is suspicious, and we can go back to having relative free speech on the Internet at least.
- Lrigikithumer 12y ago
  Take to the streets then, peaceful protest, make noise, make it aware to every man woman and child that this is an important issue, that your freedom is something you value. Peaceful assembly with a forceful message is one of the only ways this can be changed, Americans need to stand up and be heard or it's only ever going to get worse.
  - elliotec 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

thekingshorses 12y ago

Cached: http://hn.premii.com/#/article/7993426/first-they-came-for-the-whistleblowers-and-i-did-not-speak-out http://hn.premii.com/#/article/7993426/first-they-came-for-t...

chx 12y ago

There's a bigger problem today: I did speak out. Perhaps you did too. You tweeted, retweeted, commented, blogged etc. Noone cared. What now?

Taek 12y ago
"Like this post if you pray for cancer victims" I would like to suggest that voting provides a way out. If the NSA had a smaller budget, things might be better. If every branch of our military had a smaller budget, things might be better. Congressmen do listen to us, and if collectively we spoke against the military, there might be success. Honestly I have no idea how to fight politically. I think we all feel powerless. But there are some things you can do. You can run a tor relay node. You can learn about these technologies and help development efforts. You can participate with Freenode and I2P. You can encrypt all of your connections end-to-end and avoid services that are known to cooperate with 3 letter agencies. But no matter what angle you pick, you're going to be fighting up hill. It's going to suck, and you aren't going to feel like you're making any progress on your own. But if enough of us rally behind the technologies that protect our rights as human beings, then maybe we can reverse the tide.
- smacktoward 12y ago
  I would tend to agree, but voting is just the first rung of what you might think of as a ladder of commitment: Voting Organizing others Donating money to fund full-time campaigners Volunteering for leadership positions/running for office Each step on the ladder requires more commitment, and will therefore be taken by fewer people. But to succeed, a movement needs all of them. If you vote, and nothing changes, and you're asking what comes next, maybe you're ready to move to the next rung. Start a meetup in your community. Give to the EFF or the ACLU. Run for office yourself, or identify a good person who should be running and help them do so.
- chx 12y ago
  > Congressmen do listen to us Where did you get a nonsensical idea like that? Maybe in a few years if https://mayday.us/ https://mayday.us/ succeeds. But right now.... nope.

js2 12y ago

In case someone doesn't know the reference: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_....

socrates1998 12y ago

I think most people feel powerless, either financially or technically. Many people I know think what the NSA is doing is completely wrong, but they have problems logging into facebook and getting their email to work, they just feel powerless because they don't understand the technology behind the world they live in. How can they stand up to something they can't even begin to comprehend? The NSA could literally do anything they wanted to most people and they wouldn't even know about it. And then we have a much smaller group of people in the tech industry (most people who frequent Hacker News), who know what the NSA is doing is horribly horribly wrong, but are afraid of being destroyed financially, socially, and professionally for standing up to them. It feels like swimming up a waterfall. The NSA can so easily ruin lives by planting illegal material on your computer, then tip off the local cops who get a search warrant, then they seize your computer and find the illegal material on your computer. And you life is ruined. I mean, they are so powerful technologically speaking, they can ruin lives without so much as lifting a finger. It's very scary and very real.

pwelch 12y ago
Your post summarized all of my thoughts. Could not agree more.
Riseed 12y ago
I agree, but wanted to add: For many people, law enforcement doesn't even have to bother planting illegal material. They only have to twist the description of a target's behavior until it fits the requirements for violating a law (e.g. CFAA[1]), or catch the target committing any of the other federal crimes[2] he/she unknowingly commits on a regular basis. [1] Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act or EFF: https://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act_%28CFAA%29 https://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act_%... [2] The many failed efforts to count nation's federal criminal laws: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304319804576389601079728920 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230431980...
stillsut 12y ago
1. Couldn't a random hacker do that? Or a hacker affiliated with a private institution (e.g. News of the World)? 2. There's this terrible virus going around that locks you out of your PC or server meaning you lose all your data unless you pay the ransom of $500 in bitcoins. With this new trend in un-regulated crypto-currency, this scam cannot be stopped through the traditional means - financial/bank account freezes. Does this give any privacy proponents pause for thought? Also there's the old hack your webcam and blackmail you which has led people to commit suicide. Again, malicious hackers, not a gov't conspiracy There's actually a reason we've given power to police/enforcers in every aspect of life: because criminals are ruthless and prey on the innocent and gullible - physically, financially, and of course, now cyber-ly. 3. You've actually started to glean the important point in how we deal with cyber evidence as a society. Nobody's life has ever been ruined by getting put into an internal watch-list. But when list become enforceable (like the No-Fly list, or the McCarthy-era communist list) then lives are ruined. This is similar to your point about planting evidence: when the local police and prosecutor get brought into it, lives are at stake. I again wonder though why a spy agency would need to hack evidence onto your computer when they could simply plant in your house; that has happend thousands of times by dirty street cops, while your example - being carried out by a gov't agency - has never been reported to happen even once.

bithive123 12y ago

I should not need to remind this crowd but if anyone feels doubt over what can and must be done, simply search YouTube for "Eben Moglen"; you can't go wrong.

jaekwon 12y ago

There is always a counter movement. It's going on right now, but for obvious reasons they don't make themselves known. Find each other.

paulhauggis 12y ago

Look at all of the people that have gotten fired (or lost their careers) for things they said or did in their private time over the past year. The firings were brought on by mob mentality on Twitter and Facebook with no judge or jury. All to silence opposing view points. If such behavior is accepted as normal, why is it any surprise that our government is doing the same thing..and worse? Big brother is here, and it's us. I'm glad I learned early on to stay anonymous on the Internet.

transfire 12y ago

The second to last line betrays a misunderstanding of the current order of things. (Unless the writer thinks it is the Muslims or the KKK that are coming for us.) Jews in general are no longer the victims.

amjaeger 12y ago
This is a poem from the holocaust First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me