5 ms·

Yeah, and if you don't even have an internet connection, NSA is putting you on their most wanted list. Give me a break. Not doing something can't make you more

by Holbein 12y ago

Yeah, and if you don't even have an internet connection, NSA is putting you on their most wanted list. Give me a break. Not doing something can't make you more suspicious.

pessimizer 12y ago
>Not doing something can't make you more suspicious. That's just stupid.
- Holbein 12y ago
  No. That's common sense. If you don't do something on the internet, there is no data. No data = nothing suspicious.
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    There is no state of no data. You are known to exist, you are known for not participating in something that is common for your group. That, in combination with the thousands of other data points about you will determine whether you are of interest. That may determine whether your car gets searched during a traffic stop, or whether you're put on a no-fly list. This is not complicated to build, it is simple to build, and the only logical way of accomplishing what the government claims that they're attempting to accomplish.
    - Holbein 12y ago
      I think you're overestimating the NSA's capability to cross-reference your actions and compare them to "what people like me should typically do". My point is, you should not change your behaviour to be a lesser target to the NSA. You'd just quickly become super paranoid. Instead you should live your live exactly the same, and if the NSA tries to make your live bad, that's the moment when you call them out on it - after all, it's the NSA that is behaving out of line. So they should change, not you. Oh, and http://defundthensa.com/ http://defundthensa.com/ , sure.
      - pessimizer 12y ago
        I think you're overestimating the difficulty of the problem. The difficult part is access to the channels of information. After that, it's a matter of applying well-known algorithms while filtering and processing streams. The only reason that I suspect that the government is still terrible at this is because they have to rely on government contractors to implement it. If they're intentionally funding startups that happen to be developing tools in the spaces they need, though, it's only a matter of a (short) time until the systems they have are settled and dependable, and they can concentrate on innovation. >it's the NSA that is behaving out of line. So they should change, not you. This is also silly. That's like people who walk into speeding traffic because they have the right-of-way. You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave.
        Holbein 12y ago
        > You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave. Well, in contrast to you, I plan to enjoy my life instead of wasting it by worrying about some possible bad actor spying on me, which is what I'm must read is how you spend your life. Sure, fight the NSA by engaging a little bit politically, and buying the right things. But apart from that, don't worry so much, man.
        pessimizer 12y ago
        I'm not worried (edit: about anything immediate), I'm not failing to partake in anything that I ever would, and I don't live any differently than I ever have. You're projecting something onto me, and that's not a great way to have a productive discussion.
        Holbein 12y ago
        Well, when you say > You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave that's equally projecting something onto me, so... that's not a great way to have a productive discussion neither.
  - NotAtWork 12y ago
    The lack of data about you on the internet is likely more anomalous than whatever data you're trying to hide originally was. Not finding something when you should find something is suspicious.
  - happyscrappy 12y ago
    Even if you go full Stallman data leaks everywhere. Credit card purchase data is bought and sold daily as is satellite imaging time.
  - rosser 12y ago
    The absence of data is, itself, data.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    No data may be very suspicious if some data is expected to be found. See http://abstrusegoose.com/396 http://abstrusegoose.com/396 for an illustrative example.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    Have you never heard the classic movie line? It's quiet. TOO quiet.

by Holbein 12y ago

Yeah, and if you don't even have an internet connection, NSA is putting you on their most wanted list. Give me a break. Not doing something can't make you more suspicious.

pessimizer 12y ago

>Not doing something can't make you more suspicious. That's just stupid.

Holbein 12y ago
No. That's common sense. If you don't do something on the internet, there is no data. No data = nothing suspicious.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  There is no state of no data. You are known to exist, you are known for not participating in something that is common for your group. That, in combination with the thousands of other data points about you will determine whether you are of interest. That may determine whether your car gets searched during a traffic stop, or whether you're put on a no-fly list. This is not complicated to build, it is simple to build, and the only logical way of accomplishing what the government claims that they're attempting to accomplish.
  - Holbein 12y ago
    I think you're overestimating the NSA's capability to cross-reference your actions and compare them to "what people like me should typically do". My point is, you should not change your behaviour to be a lesser target to the NSA. You'd just quickly become super paranoid. Instead you should live your live exactly the same, and if the NSA tries to make your live bad, that's the moment when you call them out on it - after all, it's the NSA that is behaving out of line. So they should change, not you. Oh, and http://defundthensa.com/ http://defundthensa.com/ , sure.
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      I think you're overestimating the difficulty of the problem. The difficult part is access to the channels of information. After that, it's a matter of applying well-known algorithms while filtering and processing streams. The only reason that I suspect that the government is still terrible at this is because they have to rely on government contractors to implement it. If they're intentionally funding startups that happen to be developing tools in the spaces they need, though, it's only a matter of a (short) time until the systems they have are settled and dependable, and they can concentrate on innovation. >it's the NSA that is behaving out of line. So they should change, not you. This is also silly. That's like people who walk into speeding traffic because they have the right-of-way. You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave.
      - Holbein 12y ago
        > You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave. Well, in contrast to you, I plan to enjoy my life instead of wasting it by worrying about some possible bad actor spying on me, which is what I'm must read is how you spend your life. Sure, fight the NSA by engaging a little bit politically, and buying the right things. But apart from that, don't worry so much, man.
        pessimizer 12y ago
        I'm not worried (edit: about anything immediate), I'm not failing to partake in anything that I ever would, and I don't live any differently than I ever have. You're projecting something onto me, and that's not a great way to have a productive discussion.
        Holbein 12y ago
        Well, when you say > You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave that's equally projecting something onto me, so... that's not a great way to have a productive discussion neither.
- NotAtWork 12y ago
  The lack of data about you on the internet is likely more anomalous than whatever data you're trying to hide originally was. Not finding something when you should find something is suspicious.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  Even if you go full Stallman data leaks everywhere. Credit card purchase data is bought and sold daily as is satellite imaging time.
- rosser 12y ago
  The absence of data is, itself, data.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  No data may be very suspicious if some data is expected to be found. See http://abstrusegoose.com/396 http://abstrusegoose.com/396 for an illustrative example.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Have you never heard the classic movie line? It's quiet. TOO quiet.