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This won't be a popular comment amongst my fellow Australians, but some of these points in the post don't ring true to me. Being a startup in Australia is hard
by bbromhead 12y ago
This won't be a popular comment amongst my fellow Australians, but some of these points in the post don't ring true to me.
Being a startup in Australia is hard, but being a startup is hard anywhere. I think there is a certain mentality amongst Australian startups that the US is the land of milk and honey for startups and Australia sucks. There is a certain element of truth in that, but its not as bad as some of the posts to HN make it out to be.
First Tax Breaks:
The R&D tax incentive is amazing (http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/programs/innovation-rd/RD-TaxIncentive/Pages/default.aspx http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/programs/innovation-rd/RD-TaxI...). We have recovered around 40% of our seed funding as a tax refund from the ATO. If you do something slightly innovative and can prove that you do some testing, you qualify. This tax incentive has directly allowed us to put on another developer.
GST:
Yup GST is a pain but at least its uniformly applied to the whole country. The US you have to apply it on a state by state basis (depending on where you are located etc and the nature of the good/service you provide). Other countries have a consumption tax. Seriously meeting your tax obligations is a requirement of doing business anywhere, its not that hard to do: if(countryCode == "AU") {//apply GST... }.
Venture Capital:
Nothing can compare to Silicon Valley in terms of money available for the tech space, but at the same time Australian VCs are often happy with a 10x exit as opposed to pushing you to be either a $1 billion company or go bust. The choice of where you raise will be a personal choice more likely influenced about who you know. Remember the higher the valuation you get, the bigger the exit you need to make.
Australia being expensive:
Sure you pay a little bit more for your mac book pro, but the guy using it will be seriously cheaper than someone in the valley. You think Australia is competitive for developers who could get a cushy contracting rate. Try competing with facebook, google etc for the top talent.
Internet:
Ok the current government hates in the NBN, it sucks, I love fast broadband as much as the next person, but unless your startup is about delivering high bandwidth content to Australians who cares? Your servers are going to be sitting on AWS in US_EAST anyway.
Mind you having said that I do agree with some points. Employee Share Schemes are a pain in the arse and getting a good payment provider is tough. Seriously spend the cash to get a Delaware C-Corp and open a US bank account... this will make your life so much easier. Even Braintree Australia is a shadow of using Braintree from the US.
- crdb 12y agoTo nitpick: - Australia is only competitive against the Valley, but that's like saying New York super premium real estate is cheap because those penthouses go for 30m vs London's 100m. We hire globally with half the team being remote, and Aussies are the most expensive per "unit talent" of our applicants, followed by Sweden (which is tax-expensive). Americans are really cheap once you get them out of the Valley - on par with Asia despite the extra tax - because cost of living in places like LA's suburbs or Pittsburgh is low. - there's AWS in Sydney and Singapore now.
- bbromhead 12y agoBy the same logic (and our hiring experiences), Australians are also cheap outside of Sydney and Melbourne.
- crdb 12y agoReally? Our applicants came from Perth, Brissy and even Tasmania as well. In fact, the Sydney ones were cheaper. But we target people with around 5-10 years experience. I would say if x is the market value of a Singaporean developer, Australia is around 3x, the US 0.8x but this is hypothetical since we have yet to hire a Singaporean into the Haskell team (the language is pretty much unknown here). I was looking at real estate in various Australian cities. There's a 3 bedroom house 1km from Bankstown station (not as bad as it used to be but still, no Kirribilli) that went for 750k AUD 2 months ago - imagine what that would buy in most US cities! Even moving to the suburbs isn't an option anymore.
- jbarham 12y ago> Even moving to the suburbs isn't an option anymore. Sure it is. Just rent instead of buying. I pay less to rent a 3 bedroom house in Melbourne's inner suburbs than I did for a 3 bedroom unit in Irvine, CA. Granted buying a house in Australia is very expensive, but Aussies will learn soon enough the folly of not heeding the lessons of the property bubbles in the US, Ireland, Spain etc...