5 ms·

Show HN: Ladder, find a new startup job anonymously

46 points by brackin 12y ago

eroo 12y ago
If you wouldn't mind providing some insight, I'm curious what your approach is to verifying a hire is w.r.t. collecting commission?
- brackin 12y ago
  We want to get out of the way as much as possible. We're really involved with companies and check back in. Can check Linkedin, etc. We wait to see how the employee fits within the company. If we connect companies with high quality hires they'll want to pay so that they can continue working with us. This will likely only scale to a certain size.
  - yid 12y ago
    > We don't ask the company to pay anything for 30 days, to see how it goes. I genuinely would be surprised to see a company pay a sourcing fee in under 30 days, sometimes 60 or 90.
  - frankdenbow 12y ago
    Thats the hardest part. I built something similar, although not anonymous (http://startupjob.me http://startupjob.me) and collecting is tough. What I have been trying is incentivizing the candidate to also check back in if they have been hired. That way you don't have to rely on the companies alone.
lauradhamilton 12y ago
You misspelled "discreetly."
- brackin 12y ago
  Doh. Fixed, thanks.
brackin 12y ago
We quietly launched about a week ago and have already seen good quality and experience from technical talent. With 50+ engineers, designers, PM's on the platform. Some with 15 years of experience in their field or previous experience leading teams at well known companies Co-founders of startups are signing up to find something new, PM's at tech companies are looking to join startups and engineers that think they might want to try something new are getting options. We speak to every signup to evaluate if they're right for the platform and if we can find the right role for them. Once a company and employee are matched, they can communicate directly through their own process.
pauldino 12y ago
Was there any concern about a trademark conflict with TheLadders?
- brackin 12y ago
  It's a different market & a generic term used in hiring (this is only for tech talent & curated approach), the name isn't that important though.
  - timcederman 12y ago
    Not that different - and this is liable to cause confusion.
  - notahacker 12y ago
    I thought the generic notion of career ladders was what people went into startups to avoid...
    - ForHackernews 12y ago
      I assumed people went into startups because conventional career ladders don't exist anymore. When was the last time you got a raise or promotion by staying with your company?
      - dllthomas 12y ago
        Around 2009, working at a university, personally.
  - tghw 12y ago
    TheLadders - Find a ________ job (Higher paying) Ladder - Find a ________ job. (Startup) Not only that, but the domains are very close: tryladder.com theladders.com Prepare for a C&D from The Ladders.
  - lauradhamilton 12y ago
    IANAL but I agree that there does seem to be a conflict with http://www.theladders.com/ http://www.theladders.com/
fiatjaf 12y ago
5% of salary? Forever? Are you crazy?
- brackin 12y ago
  Made that clearer on the homepage now, just their first year.
  - fiatjaf 12y ago
    Still high, but at least saner.
    - brackin 12y ago
      Most of the other marketplaces people have mentioned in this thread charge 2-4X more than us. If we can connect companies with great talent it'll be worth it.
timcederman 12y ago
What do these calls-to-action mean? [hiring] [tech talent] I have no idea what either are going to do. Also, when I click on "tech talent", this is confusing: "What role are you looking for? We only accept high quality companies that are actively hiring." It sounds like you're trying to qualify me applying...but you're actually talking about which companies you may or may not refer to me. I understand you're trying to make your value prop clear, but it's just confusing at this point.
- brackin 12y ago
  Thanks Tim, changed hiring to companies & clarified that statement. Will try to improve this further.
  - afarrell 12y ago
    Why not "hire" and "get hired"?
thinkt4nk 12y ago
Am I missing something? You've essentially started a tech recruitment firm, right? Is there something novel about your business?
- opendais 12y ago
  It appears to be the $0 plan from http://www.typeform.com/pricing/ http://www.typeform.com/pricing/ + a landing page. So I'd guess the only unique bits are any connections they might have.
dyadic 12y ago
I really dislike the use of "Full Stack Developer" and especially when I'm pushed into that box by the only other choices being FE and iOS dev.
- walshemj 12y ago
  yes I take full stack to mean that they can work at all 7 layers of the OSI stack - i.e. they could design and build/supervise the installation of a network that the code they write can run on. Whereas some take it to mean they can do basic server coding and html/JavaScript
- silverbax88 12y ago
  "Full Stack Developer" is the equivalent of "5 years of experience" in whatever new language or tech was announced last week. When I see companies advertise that, I know they are clueless right up front.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    About a week ago it occurred to me that "Full Stack Developer" is what we used to call "Software Engineer." It's like suddenly understanding some idiom the locals are using; everything in the universe made a lot more sense.
    - ForHackernews 12y ago
      Is that true? I always took "Full Stack Developer" to mean "We're too cheap to hire a proper ops team, so we're going to expect you to serve triple-duty as Sysadmin, DBA, and Software Developer." Maybe I've been unfairly ignoring a lot of postings?
      - jnbiche 12y ago
        >"...we're going to expect you to serve triple-duty as Sysadmin, DBA, and Software Developer." >Maybe I've been unfairly ignoring a lot of postings? If that's your impression, then I think you have been. By full-stack developer, many people in the start-up world simply mean someone who can work at all levels of web development, from server-side programming to Javascript, CSS, and HTML. It's not an unreasonable use of the word, since web developers have long talked of "their stack", meaning what they use for server-side framework, caching, http server, as well as client-side frameworks and development environments. I don't think most people use the term to include sysops, although in a small start-up you will inevitably be doing a lot of that.
taariqlewis 12y ago
A very busy space. The true demand is that you have lots of passive talent signing up. These folks are highly valued, but it's not clear how you get passive seekers (who aren't interested in moving unless they get excited) to make a change. Active seekers are already in the ATS' of ALL your recruiting companies. They aren't that valuable. So, you have lots to do here. Your competitors at Hired.com and elsewhere are investing big money to compete to move passives into active mode. I wish you the best of luck, but competition here is brutal and it's not clear what your unique value proposition or edge is here. Lastly, "anonymous job searches" is the way of the passive seeker, but it's very hard to get them to make a decision. The chain of interaction requires much more ways to engage than their filling out a few boxes on what they do and where they live/email. If you could bring to the surface things that passives like but will not reveal to just anyone, you may be able to create an edge. However, it's tough meng. It's tough out there for a recruiting platform.
- brackin 12y ago
  Absolutely. Honestly, I was really surprised at the number of people that signed up that aren't on the market, still work at their job & couldn't use one of our competitors. Including founders and PM's. The V1 is definitely not the end implementation, there are a lot of challenges ahead. It's just a great way to connect people at a relatively small scale. With curation and reaching out for more information from talent.
- danielweber 12y ago
  Unlike hired.com, this guy tells me two questions in that since I'm not in SF, NY, or LA I should move on. Which I actually appreciate. Other places waste my time. I don't know how my appreciation translates into revenue for him, so we're missing any decent feedback loop besides nice HN comments.
- 7Figures2Commas 12y ago
  The "passive seekers" you refer to are what I like to call window shoppers. Recruiting platforms like this one almost always appeal to window shoppers. Many window shoppers are folks who simply want find out if the grass is greener on the other side. In most cases they're window shopping because they don't really know what they want and they're not motivated enough to figure it out. For example, many of these folks are not looking to work in a particular vertical, or to solve a particular type of technical challenge. Instead, they're looking to see if they can earn $xx,xxx more per year or get into a hotter startup. I wouldn't say that there are no good window shoppers, but they're rarely as attractive as the folks who are happily employed but open-minded enough to explore a great opportunity if they encounter one. Non-window shoppers are more likely to be people you meet in person. You pique their interest by telling a compelling story about your business or the technical challenges you're trying to solve, not by leading with compensation and your fridge's awesome collection of imported beers. It's amusing that so many companies don't see these networks of window shoppers for what they are.
phantom_oracle 12y ago
Add "remote" as a location and your signups will probably increase by double or more.
- brackin 12y ago
  Added remote as an option
MadMoogle 12y ago
Why is github or online portfolio a requirement? It doesn't explain what's being verified, or what we should do if we don't have either of those things.
Smutchings 12y ago
As someone who works at Typeform, it's AWESOME to see people using our product to make MVPs like this. Best of luck, it's an interesting concept. (And one I could have done with a few years back).

46 points by brackin 12y ago

eroo 12y ago

If you wouldn't mind providing some insight, I'm curious what your approach is to verifying a hire is w.r.t. collecting commission?

brackin 12y ago
We want to get out of the way as much as possible. We're really involved with companies and check back in. Can check Linkedin, etc. We wait to see how the employee fits within the company. If we connect companies with high quality hires they'll want to pay so that they can continue working with us. This will likely only scale to a certain size.
- yid 12y ago
  > We don't ask the company to pay anything for 30 days, to see how it goes. I genuinely would be surprised to see a company pay a sourcing fee in under 30 days, sometimes 60 or 90.
- frankdenbow 12y ago
  Thats the hardest part. I built something similar, although not anonymous (http://startupjob.me http://startupjob.me) and collecting is tough. What I have been trying is incentivizing the candidate to also check back in if they have been hired. That way you don't have to rely on the companies alone.

lauradhamilton 12y ago

You misspelled "discreetly."

brackin 12y ago
Doh. Fixed, thanks.

brackin 12y ago

We quietly launched about a week ago and have already seen good quality and experience from technical talent. With 50+ engineers, designers, PM's on the platform. Some with 15 years of experience in their field or previous experience leading teams at well known companies Co-founders of startups are signing up to find something new, PM's at tech companies are looking to join startups and engineers that think they might want to try something new are getting options. We speak to every signup to evaluate if they're right for the platform and if we can find the right role for them. Once a company and employee are matched, they can communicate directly through their own process.

pauldino 12y ago

Was there any concern about a trademark conflict with TheLadders?

brackin 12y ago
It's a different market & a generic term used in hiring (this is only for tech talent & curated approach), the name isn't that important though.
- timcederman 12y ago
  Not that different - and this is liable to cause confusion.
- notahacker 12y ago
  I thought the generic notion of career ladders was what people went into startups to avoid...
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    I assumed people went into startups because conventional career ladders don't exist anymore. When was the last time you got a raise or promotion by staying with your company?
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      Around 2009, working at a university, personally.
- tghw 12y ago
  TheLadders - Find a ________ job (Higher paying) Ladder - Find a ________ job. (Startup) Not only that, but the domains are very close: tryladder.com theladders.com Prepare for a C&D from The Ladders.
- lauradhamilton 12y ago
  IANAL but I agree that there does seem to be a conflict with http://www.theladders.com/ http://www.theladders.com/

fiatjaf 12y ago

5% of salary? Forever? Are you crazy?

brackin 12y ago
Made that clearer on the homepage now, just their first year.
- fiatjaf 12y ago
  Still high, but at least saner.
  - brackin 12y ago
    Most of the other marketplaces people have mentioned in this thread charge 2-4X more than us. If we can connect companies with great talent it'll be worth it.

timcederman 12y ago

What do these calls-to-action mean? [hiring] [tech talent] I have no idea what either are going to do. Also, when I click on "tech talent", this is confusing: "What role are you looking for? We only accept high quality companies that are actively hiring." It sounds like you're trying to qualify me applying...but you're actually talking about which companies you may or may not refer to me. I understand you're trying to make your value prop clear, but it's just confusing at this point.

brackin 12y ago
Thanks Tim, changed hiring to companies & clarified that statement. Will try to improve this further.
- afarrell 12y ago
  Why not "hire" and "get hired"?

thinkt4nk 12y ago

Am I missing something? You've essentially started a tech recruitment firm, right? Is there something novel about your business?

opendais 12y ago
It appears to be the $0 plan from http://www.typeform.com/pricing/ http://www.typeform.com/pricing/ + a landing page. So I'd guess the only unique bits are any connections they might have.

dyadic 12y ago

I really dislike the use of "Full Stack Developer" and especially when I'm pushed into that box by the only other choices being FE and iOS dev.

walshemj 12y ago
yes I take full stack to mean that they can work at all 7 layers of the OSI stack - i.e. they could design and build/supervise the installation of a network that the code they write can run on. Whereas some take it to mean they can do basic server coding and html/JavaScript
silverbax88 12y ago
"Full Stack Developer" is the equivalent of "5 years of experience" in whatever new language or tech was announced last week. When I see companies advertise that, I know they are clueless right up front.
- danielweber 12y ago
  About a week ago it occurred to me that "Full Stack Developer" is what we used to call "Software Engineer." It's like suddenly understanding some idiom the locals are using; everything in the universe made a lot more sense.
  - ForHackernews 12y ago
    Is that true? I always took "Full Stack Developer" to mean "We're too cheap to hire a proper ops team, so we're going to expect you to serve triple-duty as Sysadmin, DBA, and Software Developer." Maybe I've been unfairly ignoring a lot of postings?
    - jnbiche 12y ago
      >"...we're going to expect you to serve triple-duty as Sysadmin, DBA, and Software Developer." >Maybe I've been unfairly ignoring a lot of postings? If that's your impression, then I think you have been. By full-stack developer, many people in the start-up world simply mean someone who can work at all levels of web development, from server-side programming to Javascript, CSS, and HTML. It's not an unreasonable use of the word, since web developers have long talked of "their stack", meaning what they use for server-side framework, caching, http server, as well as client-side frameworks and development environments. I don't think most people use the term to include sysops, although in a small start-up you will inevitably be doing a lot of that.

taariqlewis 12y ago

A very busy space. The true demand is that you have lots of passive talent signing up. These folks are highly valued, but it's not clear how you get passive seekers (who aren't interested in moving unless they get excited) to make a change. Active seekers are already in the ATS' of ALL your recruiting companies. They aren't that valuable. So, you have lots to do here. Your competitors at Hired.com and elsewhere are investing big money to compete to move passives into active mode. I wish you the best of luck, but competition here is brutal and it's not clear what your unique value proposition or edge is here. Lastly, "anonymous job searches" is the way of the passive seeker, but it's very hard to get them to make a decision. The chain of interaction requires much more ways to engage than their filling out a few boxes on what they do and where they live/email. If you could bring to the surface things that passives like but will not reveal to just anyone, you may be able to create an edge. However, it's tough meng. It's tough out there for a recruiting platform.

brackin 12y ago
Absolutely. Honestly, I was really surprised at the number of people that signed up that aren't on the market, still work at their job & couldn't use one of our competitors. Including founders and PM's. The V1 is definitely not the end implementation, there are a lot of challenges ahead. It's just a great way to connect people at a relatively small scale. With curation and reaching out for more information from talent.
danielweber 12y ago
Unlike hired.com, this guy tells me two questions in that since I'm not in SF, NY, or LA I should move on. Which I actually appreciate. Other places waste my time. I don't know how my appreciation translates into revenue for him, so we're missing any decent feedback loop besides nice HN comments.
7Figures2Commas 12y ago
The "passive seekers" you refer to are what I like to call window shoppers. Recruiting platforms like this one almost always appeal to window shoppers. Many window shoppers are folks who simply want find out if the grass is greener on the other side. In most cases they're window shopping because they don't really know what they want and they're not motivated enough to figure it out. For example, many of these folks are not looking to work in a particular vertical, or to solve a particular type of technical challenge. Instead, they're looking to see if they can earn $xx,xxx more per year or get into a hotter startup. I wouldn't say that there are no good window shoppers, but they're rarely as attractive as the folks who are happily employed but open-minded enough to explore a great opportunity if they encounter one. Non-window shoppers are more likely to be people you meet in person. You pique their interest by telling a compelling story about your business or the technical challenges you're trying to solve, not by leading with compensation and your fridge's awesome collection of imported beers. It's amusing that so many companies don't see these networks of window shoppers for what they are.

phantom_oracle 12y ago

Add "remote" as a location and your signups will probably increase by double or more.

brackin 12y ago
Added remote as an option

MadMoogle 12y ago

Why is github or online portfolio a requirement? It doesn't explain what's being verified, or what we should do if we don't have either of those things.

Smutchings 12y ago

As someone who works at Typeform, it's AWESOME to see people using our product to make MVPs like this. Best of luck, it's an interesting concept. (And one I could have done with a few years back).