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Totally on a tangent here, but I find myself disappointed, again. I'm a long time hobbyist programmer, got my start back in the days of Apple IIe, got my first

Totally on a tangent here, but I find myself disappointed, again. I'm a long time hobbyist programmer, got my start back in the days of Apple IIe, got my first Mac in 1984...and I'm still not switching back to iPhone until I can write my own software and run it on my own phone without paying Apple for the privilege. I'm waiting for two simple words: "Unknown sources". Guess I have to wait some more. Not sure how low Apple's market share will have to go before they start allowing it. Can't say I love programming for Android, Java just doesn't feel right to me, but I'm sticking with it as long as I can write my own software, run it on my phone or tablet, share it with others, even sell it without Google's permission.

Terretta 12y ago
I think you missed that the App Store is an iPhone afterthought -- the original, still supported, intent was to support HTML5 apps installed to your home screen. You can write your own software, run it on any iOS device, share it with others, even sell it without anyone's permission. Here is a PacMan style game, for example: http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/257187093/pie-guy http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/257187093/pie-guy If that's not "hobbyist" friendly, I don't know what is.
- mikeash 12y ago
  It's an awful way to program. You don't get a choice of languages. There's no debugger. There isn't even an easily accessible console log to print to. It's like trying to assemble a watch, in the dark, while wearing mittens. You can do it, but it's not terribly fun. There's a reason that there was a massive developer outcry at the "sweet solution" of HTML5 apps, causing Apple to release a native SDK instead.
  - simscitizen 12y ago
    You can actually attach desktop Safari's Web Inspector to both Mobile Safari and webviews running on a remote iPhone and get debugging, console logging, etc. The native stuff still has much better tooling, but the situation with webviews isn't as dire as you imagine.
    - mikeash 12y ago
      Oh, that's nice! Looks like it's new with iOS 6. So, it was awful for a long time, but that is indeed a substantial improvement.

Terretta 12y ago

I think you missed that the App Store is an iPhone afterthought -- the original, still supported, intent was to support HTML5 apps installed to your home screen. You can write your own software, run it on any iOS device, share it with others, even sell it without anyone's permission. Here is a PacMan style game, for example: http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/257187093/pie-guy http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/257187093/pie-guy If that's not "hobbyist" friendly, I don't know what is.

mikeash 12y ago
It's an awful way to program. You don't get a choice of languages. There's no debugger. There isn't even an easily accessible console log to print to. It's like trying to assemble a watch, in the dark, while wearing mittens. You can do it, but it's not terribly fun. There's a reason that there was a massive developer outcry at the "sweet solution" of HTML5 apps, causing Apple to release a native SDK instead.
- simscitizen 12y ago
  You can actually attach desktop Safari's Web Inspector to both Mobile Safari and webviews running on a remote iPhone and get debugging, console logging, etc. The native stuff still has much better tooling, but the situation with webviews isn't as dire as you imagine.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Oh, that's nice! Looks like it's new with iOS 6. So, it was awful for a long time, but that is indeed a substantial improvement.