7 ms·

I read that Square Cash uses a credit card refund protocol to send money to debit cards so quickly. Is this the same mechanism?

timdorr 12y ago
Given that Stripe charges the same fee as an ACH transfer, it sounds like Visa/MC has given them some sort of API to convert a debit card number to ABA routing/account numbers.
- steveklabnik 12y ago
  This is not true.
- boling11 12y ago
  There's no way to map debit card numbers to routing/account numbers (afaik). They're probably using the ATM network primarily and another method if it's not supported.
  - jareau 12y ago
    (I'm a co-founder of Balanced, a payments company also building push to card (p2c) functionality [1]) > There's no way to map debit card numbers to routing/account numbers (afaik). You're correct. > They're probably using the ATM network primarily and another method if it's not supported. Based on the settlement times advertised, it looks like Stripe is simply performing "unreferenced refunds" to debit cards, rather than using the various ATM networks to push funds out to cards. If they were using the ATM networks, you could expect sub-10 min settlement times. [1] https://www.balancedpayments.com/push-to-card https://www.balancedpayments.com/push-to-card
    - mentat 12y ago
      Sub-10 min settlement times for what sorts of messages? You're seeing 220s land in that amount of time?
      - jareau 12y ago
        I mean, the funds will be available for use in the recipients bank account within 10 minutes. The API call to perform this operation will have much lower latency than that. Did I understand your questions correctly?
        mentat 12y ago
        I current deal with ISO messages for debit cards a bit so I was more asking about the underlying protocol messages involved.
  - vinhboy 12y ago
    I asked the balanced guys this last time, already, but maybe you know the answer as well. If using the ATM network, can they also initiate a withdrawal from a debit card at the 25 cents rate? This would be a huge saving versus paying a credit card processing fee, on debit cards.
- danielrhodes 12y ago
  Visa recently launched a feature where debit cards can receive funds. No ACH is involved.
hoopism 12y ago
I use the square app daily to settle up lunch tabs with friends and whatnot. Totally free and 1-day turnaround. This seems not as good.
- aioprisan 12y ago
  Square takes a hit for each transaction and makes it free for its users. Stripe has an API that allows anyone to implement this. Making it free and suffering these kinds of losses is a bad business idea.
  - hoopism 12y ago
    I'm sure square can make it up in volume.
steveklabnik 12y ago
That is only kinda true.

timdorr 12y ago

Given that Stripe charges the same fee as an ACH transfer, it sounds like Visa/MC has given them some sort of API to convert a debit card number to ABA routing/account numbers.

steveklabnik 12y ago
This is not true.
boling11 12y ago
There's no way to map debit card numbers to routing/account numbers (afaik). They're probably using the ATM network primarily and another method if it's not supported.
- jareau 12y ago
  (I'm a co-founder of Balanced, a payments company also building push to card (p2c) functionality [1]) > There's no way to map debit card numbers to routing/account numbers (afaik). You're correct. > They're probably using the ATM network primarily and another method if it's not supported. Based on the settlement times advertised, it looks like Stripe is simply performing "unreferenced refunds" to debit cards, rather than using the various ATM networks to push funds out to cards. If they were using the ATM networks, you could expect sub-10 min settlement times. [1] https://www.balancedpayments.com/push-to-card https://www.balancedpayments.com/push-to-card
  - mentat 12y ago
    Sub-10 min settlement times for what sorts of messages? You're seeing 220s land in that amount of time?
    - jareau 12y ago
      I mean, the funds will be available for use in the recipients bank account within 10 minutes. The API call to perform this operation will have much lower latency than that. Did I understand your questions correctly?
      - mentat 12y ago
        I current deal with ISO messages for debit cards a bit so I was more asking about the underlying protocol messages involved.
- vinhboy 12y ago
  I asked the balanced guys this last time, already, but maybe you know the answer as well. If using the ATM network, can they also initiate a withdrawal from a debit card at the 25 cents rate? This would be a huge saving versus paying a credit card processing fee, on debit cards.
danielrhodes 12y ago
Visa recently launched a feature where debit cards can receive funds. No ACH is involved.

hoopism 12y ago

I use the square app daily to settle up lunch tabs with friends and whatnot. Totally free and 1-day turnaround. This seems not as good.

aioprisan 12y ago
Square takes a hit for each transaction and makes it free for its users. Stripe has an API that allows anyone to implement this. Making it free and suffering these kinds of losses is a bad business idea.
- hoopism 12y ago
  I'm sure square can make it up in volume.

steveklabnik 12y ago

That is only kinda true.