8 ms·

There is a reason that the top players happen to very good at math.

by darasen 12y ago

sejje 12y ago
This is not a rule. A lot of the players don't use much math--basic pot odds. They develop a feel for when they're making the right play, and openly admit to being "feel" players. I do believe they would be very good at doing on-the-spot calculations in their head, they're often just not very trained in math. Anyhow, surprisingly little in poker is math-dependent, particularly in normal ten-handed games. The cognitive load is mostly about factoring in thousands of variables, past hands, and potential hand combinations of your opponents.
- zeppelinnn 12y ago
  Your statement is true about the "feel" players, but even those players will perform EV analysis away from the table because by estimating percentages of certain tendencies you can figure out what the right play is in tricky situations, and over the long run that ends up saving more money than anything else
- sejje 12y ago
  @zep Of course feel players are doing EV analysis, but that's 99% about estimating hand ranges properly. The math is certainly the most simplistic part of the analysis.
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    EV = "Earned Value"? Could you outline the process or point to a place to read up on it WRT poker?
    - GeneralMayhem 12y ago
      My guess would be "expected value," which is an entry-level topic in anything related to probability and randomness.
    - zeppelinnn 12y ago
      @General is right. Here's a great link about what this process generally involves and why you would do it: http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/calculating-expected-value/ http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/calculating-expected-value...
      - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
        Thanks, I know expected values, thoughts this was a game-theoretic analysis adding in potential winnings as a weighting or some such.
- Sambdala 12y ago
  This isn't the case at the top end of the field. There used to be prominent winning players who were unaware of the math behind the game, but the theory nowadays is they mostly just lucked into naturally playing in a style that happened to be better than the field during the period of time they played (i.e., years ago back when the game was less sophisticated). Nowadays, those players are often the weak players who the players more skilled at theory can comfortably beat. There's an eerie parallel to the early stock traders here.

There is a reason that the top players happen to very good at math.

by darasen 12y ago

There is a reason that the top players happen to very good at math.

sejje 12y ago

This is not a rule. A lot of the players don't use much math--basic pot odds. They develop a feel for when they're making the right play, and openly admit to being "feel" players. I do believe they would be very good at doing on-the-spot calculations in their head, they're often just not very trained in math. Anyhow, surprisingly little in poker is math-dependent, particularly in normal ten-handed games. The cognitive load is mostly about factoring in thousands of variables, past hands, and potential hand combinations of your opponents.

zeppelinnn 12y ago
Your statement is true about the "feel" players, but even those players will perform EV analysis away from the table because by estimating percentages of certain tendencies you can figure out what the right play is in tricky situations, and over the long run that ends up saving more money than anything else
sejje 12y ago
@zep Of course feel players are doing EV analysis, but that's 99% about estimating hand ranges properly. The math is certainly the most simplistic part of the analysis.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  EV = "Earned Value"? Could you outline the process or point to a place to read up on it WRT poker?
  - GeneralMayhem 12y ago
    My guess would be "expected value," which is an entry-level topic in anything related to probability and randomness.
  - zeppelinnn 12y ago
    @General is right. Here's a great link about what this process generally involves and why you would do it: http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/calculating-expected-value/ http://www.pokerology.com/lessons/calculating-expected-value...
    - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
      Thanks, I know expected values, thoughts this was a game-theoretic analysis adding in potential winnings as a weighting or some such.
Sambdala 12y ago
This isn't the case at the top end of the field. There used to be prominent winning players who were unaware of the math behind the game, but the theory nowadays is they mostly just lucked into naturally playing in a style that happened to be better than the field during the period of time they played (i.e., years ago back when the game was less sophisticated). Nowadays, those players are often the weak players who the players more skilled at theory can comfortably beat. There's an eerie parallel to the early stock traders here.