7 ms·

Roads aren't free, we pay for them in taxes and tolls.

jkelsey 12y ago
When people say "free and open", that's context enough to know that they mean free as in freedom, not as in beer. Please stop using this silly red herring.
- sukuriant 12y ago
  I honestly didn't perceive it as "free as in freedom" in the above context. That said, roads aren't that, either. Try driving on one without a license, insurance, using them in ways that are disapproved of / disallowed (speeding heavily, drinking and driving, etc) to see. Alternatively, use the road to play a game of football. I don't really think they're "free as in freedom", either.
  - sb057 12y ago
    >just as our roads are free and open to everyone, so should the digital roads be. Nobody is arguing that internet access should be gratis. How could you possibly perceive it as not meaning "free as in freedom?"
  - jkelsey 12y ago
    Stop it. You're being purposely obtuse if you're trying to equate freedom as the freedom to do crazy and nonsensical things versus freedom as a sense of liberty for people to access information, resources or services (regardless of if it's in the context of the Internet or public roads). Your argument is in the same vein as people who try to win the debate over if we have freedom of speech or not by saying we don't because we can't yell "fire!" in a crowded movie theater. Context is everything; you can't just ignore it conveniently because you're trying to save an argument that you made under a misinterpretation. Why do we have the 1st Amendment? Because the founders wanted to preserve the ability for people to make politically averse opinions in opposition to those in power, not because the founders wanted people to be to somehow able defy the laws of the natural world. People are fighting for a free and open Internet, because it has value in being able to quick access to important and useful information without restriction, not because of some super-literal definition of "freedom" or because we want it for 0 dollars and 0 cents.
  - deciplex 12y ago
    Let me know when you're effectively prohibited from driving at all, because I pulled on to the road before you did.
raarts 12y ago
OF course they are not really 'free', but does Amazon pay toll to get things delivered to you? Do government bodies who maintain the roads, tax large suppliers to make use of them?
- dublinben 12y ago
  Only in the sense that commercial trucks pay higher taxes. They pay that whether they're driving empty or full though, so the analogy falls apart.
- harryh 12y ago
  The answer to your question is yes. The bulk of highway construction is funded via a gas tax. The more you use the roads the more you pay for them.

When people say "free and open", that's context enough to know that they mean free as in freedom, not as in beer. Please stop using this silly red herring.

sukuriant 12y ago
I honestly didn't perceive it as "free as in freedom" in the above context. That said, roads aren't that, either. Try driving on one without a license, insurance, using them in ways that are disapproved of / disallowed (speeding heavily, drinking and driving, etc) to see. Alternatively, use the road to play a game of football. I don't really think they're "free as in freedom", either.
- sb057 12y ago
  >just as our roads are free and open to everyone, so should the digital roads be. Nobody is arguing that internet access should be gratis. How could you possibly perceive it as not meaning "free as in freedom?"
- jkelsey 12y ago
  Stop it. You're being purposely obtuse if you're trying to equate freedom as the freedom to do crazy and nonsensical things versus freedom as a sense of liberty for people to access information, resources or services (regardless of if it's in the context of the Internet or public roads). Your argument is in the same vein as people who try to win the debate over if we have freedom of speech or not by saying we don't because we can't yell "fire!" in a crowded movie theater. Context is everything; you can't just ignore it conveniently because you're trying to save an argument that you made under a misinterpretation. Why do we have the 1st Amendment? Because the founders wanted to preserve the ability for people to make politically averse opinions in opposition to those in power, not because the founders wanted people to be to somehow able defy the laws of the natural world. People are fighting for a free and open Internet, because it has value in being able to quick access to important and useful information without restriction, not because of some super-literal definition of "freedom" or because we want it for 0 dollars and 0 cents.
- deciplex 12y ago
  Let me know when you're effectively prohibited from driving at all, because I pulled on to the road before you did.

raarts 12y ago

OF course they are not really 'free', but does Amazon pay toll to get things delivered to you? Do government bodies who maintain the roads, tax large suppliers to make use of them?

dublinben 12y ago
Only in the sense that commercial trucks pay higher taxes. They pay that whether they're driving empty or full though, so the analogy falls apart.
harryh 12y ago
The answer to your question is yes. The bulk of highway construction is funded via a gas tax. The more you use the roads the more you pay for them.