7 ms·

Before you compare it to American wages, keep in mind that Switzerland has one of the highest costs of living in the world. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living

Before you compare it to American wages, keep in mind that Switzerland has one of the highest costs of living in the world. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp

unreal37 12y ago
Before you dismiss it so fast, the question of how can a person live on $7.25 an hour still deserves some thought? $1,200 barely enough for rent, food and a bus pass. Maybe $25 is too high, but $7.25 is low.
- ryguytilidie 12y ago
  He didn't dismiss anything. He simply provided a relevant comparison of income levels and cost of living.
- workhere-io 12y ago
  I didn't dismiss anything, and I'm not saying $7.25 is okay. I'm merely saying that cost of living should be taken into consideration when comparing countries' minimum wages.
- tn13 12y ago
  Why do we think that all work should be sufficient for a person's rent food and bus pass ?
  - jackvalentine 12y ago
    The way I see it all work should be sufficient if worked standard fulltime 38-45 hours a week for a person to survive with some free time to better themselves with. The alternative is people working huge numbers of hours just to survive and having no time to improve their situation, becoming trapped in a cycle of endless low-end jobs and poverty. You can't actually upskill if you spend 12-16 hours a day working dead-end jobs.
  - camus2 12y ago
    yeah, why pay people at all,let's enslave them.It worked well for this country!!!
    - tn13 12y ago
      Conversely, why keep minimum wages at ~$20 why not make it ~$2000 ? Lets make everyone rich.
  - gpvos 12y ago
    Because if 40 hours of work a week can't pay for that, it's called exploitation.
    - tn13 12y ago
      I would call the person unproductive instead of shifting the blame to someone else by calling it exploitation unless slavery is still legal somewhere.
      - gpvos 12y ago
        Wow. You have guts. Unproductive is a very mean word to use for people who work their ass off and still get underpaid. Something can be exploitation while it's still legal. And the blame does lie with the employer in that case. If they can't pay their workers a reasonable living wage, they should raise their prices or they have no business, or at least the law should make it so that they don't have one.
        tn13 12y ago
        Productivity has absolutely nothing to do with how hard you work. Productivity refers to the value you produce. Also, in cases where a person is free to leave the job there is no such thing as underpaid. If the person is underpaid he should leave the job and join somewhere else, if he cant get a better pay it means he is getting paid what he is worth unfortunately for him that is far too less than what it takes to live a good life. Employers which are corporations in which you and me could be investors have no right to waste our money one some else. Their only responsibility is to deliver returns on our investments by hiring the cheapest possible labor while generating maximum possible value. If there are poor people around us who need help, it is the responsibility of the society and not of corporations. I would help a poor kid get education by spending my money on him but I will not let a company I am invested in to waste my money on such kind of nonsense.
        gpvos 12y ago
        Ah. you seem to think that money is more important than people. Okay then.
- protomyth 12y ago
  $7.25 is fine for teenagers looking to pick up some experience and extra cash. The notion that the minimum wage is supposed to provide a living is a good way to remove young people from the job pool.
  - camus2 12y ago
    except now people work in minimum wage jobs all their life. > The notion that the minimum wage is supposed to provide a living is a good way to remove young people from the job pool. The minimum wage is supposed to provide a living period. How can people be as selfish as you are is beyond me.There is enough wealth in this world to be shared so everybody can make a decent living,and it wont make whatever you think you are worth less valuable.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - icebraining 12y ago
      Not supporting a particular way of distributing wealth is not necessarily being selfish. There are good arguments for e.g. raisin/expanding the EITC instead. I don't have an opinion on the matter (not being a US citizen, I certainly don't know enough about the situation), but I think your insult is completely inappropriate.
    - protomyth 12y ago
      "except now people work in minimum wage jobs all their life." Source please. "How can people be as selfish as you are is beyond me.There is enough wealth in this world to be shared so everybody can make a decent living,and it wont make whatever you think you are worth less valuable." Nice try on the appeal to emotion and shame, but the tactic is best left to talking heads on TV and not places where people actually care about this problem. I could respond with your utter indifference to the youth problem particularly it seems in minority communities whose starting businesses cannot afford $15/hr makes you a ..... well you get the idea. This is HN, not MSNBC. This whole minimum wage foolishness is a cover for politicians that have failed our poor. We need to understand why adults cannot get jobs that employers when jobs go empty. We also need to look at our safety net and see how full of holes it is. Its time for looking at new way to elevate our at risk population (basic income is often discussed here) and education (vocational education to fill the infrastructure jobs that are long vacant and not outsourceble for example).
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  Yet somehow, billions of people worldwide live on far less than that number after adjusting for purchasing power. The average Bulgarian subsists on roughly a US minimum wage salary (after adjusting for purchasing power - before adjusting for PPP it's about half a min wage salary). The average Indian subsists on far less. How do they do this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_... (Hint: roommates, cooking at home, long commutes or less desirable cities, giving up luxuries which are common in the US like a car.) Note: don't say "cost of living". The numbers I cite adjust for that.
  - psykotic 12y ago
    There are social, cultural and infrastructural factors which you completely trivialize by neglecting to mention them. In Thailand, for example, working-class people do often live with others in small spaces, but either they are strangers in factory dorms or they are extended family members in small apartments. The crucial role of the extended family may be the hardest for modern Westerners to appreciate. It is not our feel-good notion of family. My brother in law has spent the last 15 years continuously working out of country as a truck driver in Singapore, living in a ramshackle shelter on construction sites while sending most of his earnings back to his wife and kids. This is a somewhat extreme case, but milder instances are commonplace. People often have to work away from their families for years at a time to make ends meet and accrue any sort of savings. Then there is transportation. Every day you will see mothers on scooters carrying several toddlers who are certain to die in even minor accidents. Another common sight and a less egregious example would be pickup trucks with the backs piled full of day laborers, or commuters casually hanging off the back of high-speed songthaew busses. This is highly efficient in monetary terms, but the human cost is huge. It's a complex issue that is not reducible to PPP numbers.
    - yummyfajitas 12y ago
      I'm not sure why you say things aren't "reducible" to PPP numbers - low PPP-adjusted income corresponds quite well to the low consumption levels you are describing. In any case, I'm glad we are agreed that unreal37 is incorrect, and it is possible to "live on" $1200/month. It's not anywhere near as nice as American poverty, but it's hardly clear that $7.25 is too low. I'd propose an alternate direction for the discussion - if we believe the American poor are lacking in some necessary good or service, lets be specific and name it.
- MisterBastahrd 12y ago
  I had a conversation with someone tonight about just this topic. If it takes two full time jobs just to make ends meet, then you can't have a reasonable expectation of them learning a new skill to get a better job. Not only do they not have the time to learn whatever potentially lucrative skill people want to imagine up, but the fatigue from putting in that much time is probably reducing their ability to fully function at either job. Combine that with the fact that being responsible for two jobs limits promotion chances, and you've got people stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty.
gilgoomesh 12y ago
According to Wolfram Alpha, Switzerland's cost of living is 1.535 times that of the U.S. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+switzerland+versus+united+states http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+switzerl... This proposed Swiss minimum wage is therefore (roughly) equivalent to a minimum wage in the U.S. of $16.28 per hour (taxation differences and non living-expenses notwithstanding).

unreal37 12y ago

Before you dismiss it so fast, the question of how can a person live on $7.25 an hour still deserves some thought? $1,200 barely enough for rent, food and a bus pass. Maybe $25 is too high, but $7.25 is low.

ryguytilidie 12y ago
He didn't dismiss anything. He simply provided a relevant comparison of income levels and cost of living.
workhere-io 12y ago
I didn't dismiss anything, and I'm not saying $7.25 is okay. I'm merely saying that cost of living should be taken into consideration when comparing countries' minimum wages.
tn13 12y ago
Why do we think that all work should be sufficient for a person's rent food and bus pass ?
- jackvalentine 12y ago
  The way I see it all work should be sufficient if worked standard fulltime 38-45 hours a week for a person to survive with some free time to better themselves with. The alternative is people working huge numbers of hours just to survive and having no time to improve their situation, becoming trapped in a cycle of endless low-end jobs and poverty. You can't actually upskill if you spend 12-16 hours a day working dead-end jobs.
- camus2 12y ago
  yeah, why pay people at all,let's enslave them.It worked well for this country!!!
  - tn13 12y ago
    Conversely, why keep minimum wages at ~$20 why not make it ~$2000 ? Lets make everyone rich.
- gpvos 12y ago
  Because if 40 hours of work a week can't pay for that, it's called exploitation.
  - tn13 12y ago
    I would call the person unproductive instead of shifting the blame to someone else by calling it exploitation unless slavery is still legal somewhere.
    - gpvos 12y ago
      Wow. You have guts. Unproductive is a very mean word to use for people who work their ass off and still get underpaid. Something can be exploitation while it's still legal. And the blame does lie with the employer in that case. If they can't pay their workers a reasonable living wage, they should raise their prices or they have no business, or at least the law should make it so that they don't have one.
      - tn13 12y ago
        Productivity has absolutely nothing to do with how hard you work. Productivity refers to the value you produce. Also, in cases where a person is free to leave the job there is no such thing as underpaid. If the person is underpaid he should leave the job and join somewhere else, if he cant get a better pay it means he is getting paid what he is worth unfortunately for him that is far too less than what it takes to live a good life. Employers which are corporations in which you and me could be investors have no right to waste our money one some else. Their only responsibility is to deliver returns on our investments by hiring the cheapest possible labor while generating maximum possible value. If there are poor people around us who need help, it is the responsibility of the society and not of corporations. I would help a poor kid get education by spending my money on him but I will not let a company I am invested in to waste my money on such kind of nonsense.
        gpvos 12y ago
        Ah. you seem to think that money is more important than people. Okay then.
protomyth 12y ago
$7.25 is fine for teenagers looking to pick up some experience and extra cash. The notion that the minimum wage is supposed to provide a living is a good way to remove young people from the job pool.
- camus2 12y ago
  except now people work in minimum wage jobs all their life. > The notion that the minimum wage is supposed to provide a living is a good way to remove young people from the job pool. The minimum wage is supposed to provide a living period. How can people be as selfish as you are is beyond me.There is enough wealth in this world to be shared so everybody can make a decent living,and it wont make whatever you think you are worth less valuable.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - icebraining 12y ago
    Not supporting a particular way of distributing wealth is not necessarily being selfish. There are good arguments for e.g. raisin/expanding the EITC instead. I don't have an opinion on the matter (not being a US citizen, I certainly don't know enough about the situation), but I think your insult is completely inappropriate.
  - protomyth 12y ago
    "except now people work in minimum wage jobs all their life." Source please. "How can people be as selfish as you are is beyond me.There is enough wealth in this world to be shared so everybody can make a decent living,and it wont make whatever you think you are worth less valuable." Nice try on the appeal to emotion and shame, but the tactic is best left to talking heads on TV and not places where people actually care about this problem. I could respond with your utter indifference to the youth problem particularly it seems in minority communities whose starting businesses cannot afford $15/hr makes you a ..... well you get the idea. This is HN, not MSNBC. This whole minimum wage foolishness is a cover for politicians that have failed our poor. We need to understand why adults cannot get jobs that employers when jobs go empty. We also need to look at our safety net and see how full of holes it is. Its time for looking at new way to elevate our at risk population (basic income is often discussed here) and education (vocational education to fill the infrastructure jobs that are long vacant and not outsourceble for example).
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
yummyfajitas 12y ago
Yet somehow, billions of people worldwide live on far less than that number after adjusting for purchasing power. The average Bulgarian subsists on roughly a US minimum wage salary (after adjusting for purchasing power - before adjusting for PPP it's about half a min wage salary). The average Indian subsists on far less. How do they do this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_... (Hint: roommates, cooking at home, long commutes or less desirable cities, giving up luxuries which are common in the US like a car.) Note: don't say "cost of living". The numbers I cite adjust for that.
- psykotic 12y ago
  There are social, cultural and infrastructural factors which you completely trivialize by neglecting to mention them. In Thailand, for example, working-class people do often live with others in small spaces, but either they are strangers in factory dorms or they are extended family members in small apartments. The crucial role of the extended family may be the hardest for modern Westerners to appreciate. It is not our feel-good notion of family. My brother in law has spent the last 15 years continuously working out of country as a truck driver in Singapore, living in a ramshackle shelter on construction sites while sending most of his earnings back to his wife and kids. This is a somewhat extreme case, but milder instances are commonplace. People often have to work away from their families for years at a time to make ends meet and accrue any sort of savings. Then there is transportation. Every day you will see mothers on scooters carrying several toddlers who are certain to die in even minor accidents. Another common sight and a less egregious example would be pickup trucks with the backs piled full of day laborers, or commuters casually hanging off the back of high-speed songthaew busses. This is highly efficient in monetary terms, but the human cost is huge. It's a complex issue that is not reducible to PPP numbers.
  - yummyfajitas 12y ago
    I'm not sure why you say things aren't "reducible" to PPP numbers - low PPP-adjusted income corresponds quite well to the low consumption levels you are describing. In any case, I'm glad we are agreed that unreal37 is incorrect, and it is possible to "live on" $1200/month. It's not anywhere near as nice as American poverty, but it's hardly clear that $7.25 is too low. I'd propose an alternate direction for the discussion - if we believe the American poor are lacking in some necessary good or service, lets be specific and name it.
MisterBastahrd 12y ago
I had a conversation with someone tonight about just this topic. If it takes two full time jobs just to make ends meet, then you can't have a reasonable expectation of them learning a new skill to get a better job. Not only do they not have the time to learn whatever potentially lucrative skill people want to imagine up, but the fatigue from putting in that much time is probably reducing their ability to fully function at either job. Combine that with the fact that being responsible for two jobs limits promotion chances, and you've got people stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty.

gilgoomesh 12y ago

According to Wolfram Alpha, Switzerland's cost of living is 1.535 times that of the U.S. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+switzerland+versus+united+states http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+switzerl... This proposed Swiss minimum wage is therefore (roughly) equivalent to a minimum wage in the U.S. of $16.28 per hour (taxation differences and non living-expenses notwithstanding).