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Or you could pay an additional $5/month for a decent VPN. In fact, I have a number of close contacts who work in the industry who tell me that this type of prac

Or you could pay an additional $5/month for a decent VPN. In fact, I have a number of close contacts who work in the industry who tell me that this type of practice is of heavy interest and routine on the wireless end of things. Companies are tracking not just your browsing habits but your location data based on cell tower triangulation. This is why we need to decentralize the ISPs and move to local mesh networks.

r1ch 12y ago
You'd probably end up paying a lot more than $5/mo for a VPN that is actually able to keep up with gigabit internet speeds and downloading habits.
- Fuxy 12y ago
  You know your ISP is crap when you have to pay another ISP(VPN) to keep your connection secure and private.
  - kenthorvath 12y ago
    Yes. We can generally all agree that ISPs in the United States are effectively monopolists with no incentive to do what's right for their customers. Now, let's talk solutions.
    - logfromblammo 12y ago
      Everyone run some fiber to your nearest neighbor in each of the 4 cardinal directions. Go to MIT, find one or more of the kids that already figured out to make all that work, and read their theses. Launch an open-source project for the required network hardware and its firmware, and manage to sell as many as you can produce at $30 each. My pipe dreams are about a series of tubes.
      - wmf 12y ago
        A five-port gigabit fiber router sounds more like $300 in volume, and most Americans would rather pay $299/month than $300 one time because it's cheaper.
      - justizin 12y ago
        this is how all networks work. there are no special MIT theses. get an ASN and use BGP. Fiber hardware at $30 each is probably not happening, since we barely get ethernet hardware in that price range, and certainly not of any quality.
        logfromblammo 12y ago
        I was actually referring to the [implied] part where the person installing it doesn't need to know anything other than how to plug everything in. You're not going to get a usable network out of this if it requires the people using it to know anything at all about their hardware, or if they have to get their own identifying numbers from ICANN. It really needs to be something where they plug in a box and hot and cold running Internet comes out when they open the faucets. And if you thought disruptions were bad when some country "misconfigures" their BGP to route the entire Internet through their spy agency's offices for 15 minutes, wait until a thousand Joe Bagadonuts are doing it truly accidentally, all the time.
    - jessaustin 12y ago
      We can generally all agree... This made me smile. I would like to imagine that there were consensus on this point. Now, let's talk solutions. I think the effective solution for much of the nation will be wireless, but FCC and affiliated interests have been postponing the liberation of enough unlicensed spectrum to make that feasible. The dominant regulatory scheme creates scarcity where none should exist, and that's how all of these bastards keep the gravy train rolling. They rue the day they decided to just let the microwave ovens have 2.4 GHz, because now that frequency is proof that there is no physical reason to "license" electromagnetic radiation. If we can just pry a few more spectrum slices from their grasp, including those better suited to slightly longer ranges, that's the hole in the dike that will eventually create a market in telecom.
      - ewoodrich 12y ago
        >They rue the day they decided to just let the microwave ovens have 2.4 GHz, because now that frequency is proof that there is no physical reason to "license" electromagnetic radiation. What do you mean by this? 2.4ghz is used for low-power, short range communication, so of course there are fewer issues with interference. You can't say the same about the FM radio bands, for example.
        jessaustin 12y ago
        See sibling note by 'rayiner. FM as broadcast now is really old tech. Car radios would have to be updated to have cognitive radio capability, if this regulatory regime were extended to that band. But that doesn't have to happen soon; the spectrum is vast and could certainly accommodate more unlicensed use without inconveniencing this particular use. EDIT: In case this is still unclear: I'm talking about opening specific, limited bands of spectrum to unlicensed use. I would not nominate FM radio as the first such band. Just as wifi chips today are capable of not interfering on bands they don't use, super-wifi transmitters would not interfere on bands they don't use.
      - rayiner 12y ago
        I used to work precisely on the sort of technology that would make this possible, and I support liberalizing FCC regulations, but I think your comment is off-the-wall. At the time FCC licensing was instituted, there were no cognitive radios that could listen for free channels before transmitting. Heck, frequency-agile radios didn't exist. Even today, whitespaces technology isn't so well-developed that we could just get rid of the licensing regime. Remember the wireless mic debacle? http://gizmodo.com/287736/microsoft-google-dell-coalition-white-space-prototypes-get-knocked-by-fcc-device-gallery-and-details http://gizmodo.com/287736/microsoft-google-dell-coalition-wh....
jessaustin 12y ago
Or you could pay an additional $5/month for a decent VPN. TIL another reason why Ma Bell doesn't like neutrality. If they get their way we can expect performance on unobfuscated VPNs to suffer.
- mnw21cam 12y ago
  ITYM obfuscated?
  - jessaustin 12y ago
    A standard VPN doesn't try to hide, and will look like a VPN to the ISP: all packets contain encrypted material, destination doesn't vary, etc. This is what I mean by "unobfuscated", and this would be easy for an ISP to throttle. One can imagine ways to tunnel VPN traffic over ISP-approved traffic, but that arrangement might have other drawbacks.
    - mnw21cam 12y ago
      Okay, sorry, thought you meant unobfuscated as in unencrypted. Yes, you could tunnel VPN traffic over an HTTPS connection. I have built VPNs using ppp over ssh tunnelling before, and that works fine.
      - jessaustin 12y ago
        No worries! Actually I wonder if just tunneling over TLS would be enough if the ISP were determined. I mean, after they see me pushing and pulling GBs from the same host for an hour, they might just GET it themselves. If they see a "how to configure your VPN" page, that address could go on a slow-list.
      - wlesieutre 12y ago
        Putting it over HTTPS won't necessarily stop them. The caveat mentioned in the article is that they won't track your HTTPS web browsing. But they can still slow it to a crawl if they don't like you doing it.
digitalengineer 12y ago
Personal (non-company) VPN still doens't fully work on smartphones. It needs to be manually activated each time, making 'all-traffic-behind-vpn' impossible for now. It is possible for coporate VPN's so we know iPhones can do it. A choice by Apple HQ?
- lazerwalker 12y ago
  I don't know how they're accomplishing it technically, but http://getcloak.com http://getcloak.com manages to auto-enable my VPN on my iPhone every time I connect to a non-whitelisted wireless network.
  - autodidakto 12y ago
    iOS 7 opened up some APIs for it. GetCloak's app uses it (and has a lot more niceties, I read), and so does the ugly but generic OpenVPN app. I'm guesses that they're not able to block all traffic before the VPN is set up though. I'm not sure. And I'm certain the OpenVPN app doesn't fail safe/closed. Anyone know of a portable, travel wifi router that supports VPN and fails closed?
  - jeff_tyrrill 12y ago
    I'm a Cloak user. Connect on Demand in iOS has a great design, but unfortunately it's buggy. About once a week, I will catch it not using the VPN (and not blocking traffic nor trying to reconnect). I even connected my iPhone to Apple's desktop utility that allows reading the device logs and I correlated the behavior to certain log errors. This problem started in iOS 7.0 and remains up to 7.1.1 (iOS 6 was fine). As a result of this bugginess, I'm no longer willing to use untrusted wi-fi networks even with VPN. It's really too bad that Apple is not fixing this, because it renders the Connect on Demand feature useless from a security point of view, and it nullifies the functionality of Cloak. Cloak is otherwise an awesome app and service, and it's not their fault as they can't control this code.
- computer 12y ago
  Do it on your router, so that all devices that connect over wifi are automatically router through your VPN.
spacefight 12y ago
I don't get why people are pushing folks towards VPN. If you use one, you shift your endpoint from Provider A to Provider B. And you have absolutely no guarantee ever, that the upstream link of provider B or that provider B itself (accounting, user association etc etc) is not rigged... True, a VPN in hostile environments might be a good idea. If the termination endpoint is secure, is another question.
- mbreese 12y ago
  I think it has more to do with the network peering arrangements of the VPN host more than privacy. At least that would be the benefit from my point of view. If my ISP has a poor path to (for example) Netflix, but my VPN provider has a good (unsaturated) path, it could be advantageous. But this requires my ISP to have a good connection to my VPN provider.
  - johnpowell 12y ago
    I have a Plex server in Canada with OVH and on my local connection it worked fine for years to stream movies and TV. Even 1080p stuff worked fine. Then it appears that CenturyLink started shaping port 32400. So I got a 5 dollar droplet on Digital Ocean (SF) and now use that for a VPN. Plex works fine. I can switch the VPN on and off and it makes a huge difference. Without the VPN it is constant buffering.
- Havoc 12y ago
  I had a discussion about this with one of the guys from PIA VPN...you can pay via bitcoin and the info required for sign-up is kinda uhm spartan. No chance of pushing any serious traffic through a VPN though unless you control it. Unfortunately, in my case a VPN would probably put me on weaker legal ground. My ISP is not legally entitled to monitor my traffic...once it hits the VPN provider the local laws apply & I can do without US laws on the privacy front.
BryanB55 12y ago
Does anyone have any recommendations on a VPN that can keep up with gigabit speeds?
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  All sorts of VPS providers to choose from; main issue is that most 'budget' plans will be 100mbit.

r1ch 12y ago

You'd probably end up paying a lot more than $5/mo for a VPN that is actually able to keep up with gigabit internet speeds and downloading habits.

Fuxy 12y ago
You know your ISP is crap when you have to pay another ISP(VPN) to keep your connection secure and private.
- kenthorvath 12y ago
  Yes. We can generally all agree that ISPs in the United States are effectively monopolists with no incentive to do what's right for their customers. Now, let's talk solutions.
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    Everyone run some fiber to your nearest neighbor in each of the 4 cardinal directions. Go to MIT, find one or more of the kids that already figured out to make all that work, and read their theses. Launch an open-source project for the required network hardware and its firmware, and manage to sell as many as you can produce at $30 each. My pipe dreams are about a series of tubes.
    - wmf 12y ago
      A five-port gigabit fiber router sounds more like $300 in volume, and most Americans would rather pay $299/month than $300 one time because it's cheaper.
    - justizin 12y ago
      this is how all networks work. there are no special MIT theses. get an ASN and use BGP. Fiber hardware at $30 each is probably not happening, since we barely get ethernet hardware in that price range, and certainly not of any quality.
      - logfromblammo 12y ago
        I was actually referring to the [implied] part where the person installing it doesn't need to know anything other than how to plug everything in. You're not going to get a usable network out of this if it requires the people using it to know anything at all about their hardware, or if they have to get their own identifying numbers from ICANN. It really needs to be something where they plug in a box and hot and cold running Internet comes out when they open the faucets. And if you thought disruptions were bad when some country "misconfigures" their BGP to route the entire Internet through their spy agency's offices for 15 minutes, wait until a thousand Joe Bagadonuts are doing it truly accidentally, all the time.
  - jessaustin 12y ago
    We can generally all agree... This made me smile. I would like to imagine that there were consensus on this point. Now, let's talk solutions. I think the effective solution for much of the nation will be wireless, but FCC and affiliated interests have been postponing the liberation of enough unlicensed spectrum to make that feasible. The dominant regulatory scheme creates scarcity where none should exist, and that's how all of these bastards keep the gravy train rolling. They rue the day they decided to just let the microwave ovens have 2.4 GHz, because now that frequency is proof that there is no physical reason to "license" electromagnetic radiation. If we can just pry a few more spectrum slices from their grasp, including those better suited to slightly longer ranges, that's the hole in the dike that will eventually create a market in telecom.
    - ewoodrich 12y ago
      >They rue the day they decided to just let the microwave ovens have 2.4 GHz, because now that frequency is proof that there is no physical reason to "license" electromagnetic radiation. What do you mean by this? 2.4ghz is used for low-power, short range communication, so of course there are fewer issues with interference. You can't say the same about the FM radio bands, for example.
      - jessaustin 12y ago
        See sibling note by 'rayiner. FM as broadcast now is really old tech. Car radios would have to be updated to have cognitive radio capability, if this regulatory regime were extended to that band. But that doesn't have to happen soon; the spectrum is vast and could certainly accommodate more unlicensed use without inconveniencing this particular use. EDIT: In case this is still unclear: I'm talking about opening specific, limited bands of spectrum to unlicensed use. I would not nominate FM radio as the first such band. Just as wifi chips today are capable of not interfering on bands they don't use, super-wifi transmitters would not interfere on bands they don't use.
    - rayiner 12y ago
      I used to work precisely on the sort of technology that would make this possible, and I support liberalizing FCC regulations, but I think your comment is off-the-wall. At the time FCC licensing was instituted, there were no cognitive radios that could listen for free channels before transmitting. Heck, frequency-agile radios didn't exist. Even today, whitespaces technology isn't so well-developed that we could just get rid of the licensing regime. Remember the wireless mic debacle? http://gizmodo.com/287736/microsoft-google-dell-coalition-white-space-prototypes-get-knocked-by-fcc-device-gallery-and-details http://gizmodo.com/287736/microsoft-google-dell-coalition-wh....

jessaustin 12y ago

Or you could pay an additional $5/month for a decent VPN. TIL another reason why Ma Bell doesn't like neutrality. If they get their way we can expect performance on unobfuscated VPNs to suffer.

mnw21cam 12y ago
ITYM obfuscated?
- jessaustin 12y ago
  A standard VPN doesn't try to hide, and will look like a VPN to the ISP: all packets contain encrypted material, destination doesn't vary, etc. This is what I mean by "unobfuscated", and this would be easy for an ISP to throttle. One can imagine ways to tunnel VPN traffic over ISP-approved traffic, but that arrangement might have other drawbacks.
  - mnw21cam 12y ago
    Okay, sorry, thought you meant unobfuscated as in unencrypted. Yes, you could tunnel VPN traffic over an HTTPS connection. I have built VPNs using ppp over ssh tunnelling before, and that works fine.
    - jessaustin 12y ago
      No worries! Actually I wonder if just tunneling over TLS would be enough if the ISP were determined. I mean, after they see me pushing and pulling GBs from the same host for an hour, they might just GET it themselves. If they see a "how to configure your VPN" page, that address could go on a slow-list.
    - wlesieutre 12y ago
      Putting it over HTTPS won't necessarily stop them. The caveat mentioned in the article is that they won't track your HTTPS web browsing. But they can still slow it to a crawl if they don't like you doing it.

digitalengineer 12y ago

Personal (non-company) VPN still doens't fully work on smartphones. It needs to be manually activated each time, making 'all-traffic-behind-vpn' impossible for now. It is possible for coporate VPN's so we know iPhones can do it. A choice by Apple HQ?

lazerwalker 12y ago
I don't know how they're accomplishing it technically, but http://getcloak.com http://getcloak.com manages to auto-enable my VPN on my iPhone every time I connect to a non-whitelisted wireless network.
- autodidakto 12y ago
  iOS 7 opened up some APIs for it. GetCloak's app uses it (and has a lot more niceties, I read), and so does the ugly but generic OpenVPN app. I'm guesses that they're not able to block all traffic before the VPN is set up though. I'm not sure. And I'm certain the OpenVPN app doesn't fail safe/closed. Anyone know of a portable, travel wifi router that supports VPN and fails closed?
- jeff_tyrrill 12y ago
  I'm a Cloak user. Connect on Demand in iOS has a great design, but unfortunately it's buggy. About once a week, I will catch it not using the VPN (and not blocking traffic nor trying to reconnect). I even connected my iPhone to Apple's desktop utility that allows reading the device logs and I correlated the behavior to certain log errors. This problem started in iOS 7.0 and remains up to 7.1.1 (iOS 6 was fine). As a result of this bugginess, I'm no longer willing to use untrusted wi-fi networks even with VPN. It's really too bad that Apple is not fixing this, because it renders the Connect on Demand feature useless from a security point of view, and it nullifies the functionality of Cloak. Cloak is otherwise an awesome app and service, and it's not their fault as they can't control this code.
computer 12y ago
Do it on your router, so that all devices that connect over wifi are automatically router through your VPN.

spacefight 12y ago

I don't get why people are pushing folks towards VPN. If you use one, you shift your endpoint from Provider A to Provider B. And you have absolutely no guarantee ever, that the upstream link of provider B or that provider B itself (accounting, user association etc etc) is not rigged... True, a VPN in hostile environments might be a good idea. If the termination endpoint is secure, is another question.

mbreese 12y ago
I think it has more to do with the network peering arrangements of the VPN host more than privacy. At least that would be the benefit from my point of view. If my ISP has a poor path to (for example) Netflix, but my VPN provider has a good (unsaturated) path, it could be advantageous. But this requires my ISP to have a good connection to my VPN provider.
- johnpowell 12y ago
  I have a Plex server in Canada with OVH and on my local connection it worked fine for years to stream movies and TV. Even 1080p stuff worked fine. Then it appears that CenturyLink started shaping port 32400. So I got a 5 dollar droplet on Digital Ocean (SF) and now use that for a VPN. Plex works fine. I can switch the VPN on and off and it makes a huge difference. Without the VPN it is constant buffering.
Havoc 12y ago
I had a discussion about this with one of the guys from PIA VPN...you can pay via bitcoin and the info required for sign-up is kinda uhm spartan. No chance of pushing any serious traffic through a VPN though unless you control it. Unfortunately, in my case a VPN would probably put me on weaker legal ground. My ISP is not legally entitled to monitor my traffic...once it hits the VPN provider the local laws apply & I can do without US laws on the privacy front.

BryanB55 12y ago

Does anyone have any recommendations on a VPN that can keep up with gigabit speeds?

blueskin_ 12y ago
All sorts of VPS providers to choose from; main issue is that most 'budget' plans will be 100mbit.