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The Questionable Link Between Saturated Fat and Heart Disease
- jimhefferon 12y agoI really want this to be true.
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- nickpp 12y agoI don't think i know anything anymore.
- ams6110 12y agoWait a minute... I thought the notion that saturated fat caused heart disease was settled science. That we had a consensus. Now we realize we're wrong? That scientists cherry-picked data, had inadequate controls? That "too much institutional energy and research money had already been spent ... A bias in its favor had grown so strong that the idea just started to seem like common sense." The tragedy is that after generations of blind, almost religious belief in flawed science those raised on a diet of synthetic fats, sugar, and refined flour are suffering obesity and diabetes like never before.
- jacques_chester 12y ago> Now we realize we're wrong? Nope. "We" have realised that there's money to be made in selling contrarian diet books that tell people what they want to hear.
- base698 12y agoAs opposed to selling "Healthy" fat free cookies, breads and meats laced with extra sugar? I think the point of all this new research is that you can't take out fat and expect your diet to be healthy--the real story is much more complex. Most educated people would realize eating lowfat cookies still isn't a good habit to have, but society seems to think it's ok.
- jacques_chester 12y agoYou're conflating two things. "Eat less saturated fat" means ... eat less saturated fat. Not: eat more of everything else. And that advice is still sound. Calorie for calorie, gram for gram, saturated fat is worse for heart health than polyunsaturated fat. You're blaming the scientists and doctors for being (somewhat wilfully) misunderstood. You might as well blame physicists for plane crashes. After all, they lied to us about gravity!
- newaccountfool 12y ago"In contrast to current recommendations, this systematic review found no evidence that saturated fat increases the risk of coronary disease, or that polyunsaturated fats have a cardioprotective effect." http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/03March/Pages/Saturated-fats-and-heart-disease-link-unproven.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/03March/Pages/Saturated-fats-and...
- jacques_chester 12y agoAs I noted below, that study was not focused on randomised controlled trials and has been criticised by sloppy work on the part of the authors.
- jacques_chester 12y agoThe most recent research still upholds that saturated fats, over and above their contribution to obesity, are a worse risk than polyunsaturated fats. A meta-analysis of 8 randomised controlled trials with 13 thousand subjects showed that a 5% total energy substitution from saturated to polyunsaturated fats reduced risk of coronary heart disease by 10%.[1] The point about substituting hydrogenated fats is good; but it's hardly an argument for switching back to saturated fat. It's an argument in favour of not eating unhealthy food in the first place. But that's not how you sell books, is it? [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20351774/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20351774/
- kareemm 12y agoA meta analysis of 80 studies involving more than a half million people found no evidence of dangers from saturated fat, or benefits from other kinds of polyunsaturated fats (excluding trans fats, which were shown to be terrible)[1]. [1] http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat...
- jacques_chester 12y agoThat meta-analysis was not based on randomised controlled trials. It was largely based on observational and self-reporting studies, which are notoriously inaccurate. Moreover, it was subject to numerous corrections due to sloppy work by the authors: http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2014/03/scientists-fix-errors-controversial-paper-about-saturated-fats http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2014/03/scientists-fix-err...
- kareemm 12y agoThanks, hadn't seen this link. I'd like to see the specifics of what the errors are. Agree that observational and self-reporting are inaccurate, though unfortunately they're some of the best data we've got wrt nutrition. Also, looks like there were some random trials in the meta analysis. From your link: "These included trials in which participants were randomly assigned to different diets, as well as observational studies in which participants' intake of fatty acids was determined by asking them about their diet or by measuring the fatty acids circulating in the bloodstream."
- IvyMike 12y agoIn Greg Egan's story Crystal Nights, one of the characters became rich by making a site called "FoodExcuses.com", where you input what you eat and it gathers all of the scientific literature justifying it as a healthy diet. It's just a throwaway joke in the story but I'm convinced it would absolutely work in real life. http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/
- gojomo 12y agoEvery day I find more evidence that the internet mainly serves to confirm for people what they already believe. Just like I always suspected.
- treeface 12y agoI accidentally downvoted you, but this is very clever.
- anigbrowl 12y agoHa :) Seriously, this is a worry. When I was younger I thought the Internet would make the scientific method go mainstream, with Usenet and later the web functioning as a sort of intellectual meritocracy. Note to idealists: expect less and you won't be disappointed.
- tim333 12y agoI'm an optimist and think it works a bit. Amongst all the rubbish there's some well thought out stuff out there on the interwebs and those that are interested may be able to find it. The people who like reading nonsense for entertainment don't matter that much. Except they vote. So maybe they do. Anyway...
- smtddr 12y agoI would just like to point out that earlier[1] there was a discussion around science not showing any evidence of GMO harm. We don't have a complete understanding of nutrition and the human body; and there's a lot of money to be made making everyone believe one thing or another. Anyone who thinks they have it "all figured out" is setting themselves up for a surprise. Even I admit that my chasing of labels such as Non-GMO and USDA Organic could also be a big marketing scam and they could very well be selling me the same pesticide-soaked, GMO-glued-together, sweetener-laced, antibiotic+steroids pumped food that everyone else is buying while charging me a 40% markup for a lie. But since I'm confident we're all just rolling dice here, I choose to gamble on chasing food that's supposedly very similar to what my family has been getting it for generations in Nigeria with no particularly notable health issues except 2 instances of diabetes. One of them came to America, started eating all the common fast foods, drinking, smoking, etc for over a decade. The other is related to depression and change of eating habits while still in Nigeria. If I'm wrong... I'm wrong. But I hope this lets people know that our current science(and social/economical incentives around it) is not good enough to use as a debate-closer of health & fitness discussions. There are contradictions[2][3] out there. I suspect that at the end of the day, what's good for one person can be poison for another and all our attempts at generalizing health & fitness guidelines for everyone will ultimate end in failure. We'll all have to go into the hospital, get a DNA sample and get customized health & fitness advice - and that's assuming we can remove the economic incentives for hospitals/doctors to just tell us whatever it takes to sell some expensive "solution". 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7671699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7671699 2. "Many of the bacteria are species that the researchers had never seen before. And even familiar microbes were present in unusual levels in the Hadza belly. “The Hadza not only lack the ‘healthy bacteria,’ and they don’t suffer from the diseases we suffer from, but they also have high levels of bacteria that are associated with disease,” Crittenden said." ---- http://www.wired.com/2014/04/hadza-hunter-gatherer-gut-microbiome/ http://www.wired.com/2014/04/hadza-hunter-gatherer-gut-micro... 3. " Unlike their Western counterparts, the Tarahumara don't replenish their bodies with electrolyte-rich sports drinks. They don't rebuild between workouts with protein bars; in fact, they barely eat any protein at all, living on little more than ground corn spiced up by their favourite delicacy, barbecued mouse. ---- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-painful-truth-trainers-Are-expensive-running-shoes-waste-money.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1170253/The-...
- jlehman 12y agoI've followed the Paleo diet for over two years now and the health benefits have been great for me (an incidental part of eating tons of meat is getting a good amount of animal-based saturated fat). After many discussions with many people about what is or is not healthy and a lot of reading, I've come to believe two things: 1. We (scientific and non-scientific community) have no clue what is or is not healthy, and it probably varies from person to person, and 2. The human body is really good at giving indicators as to whether or not it is healthy. With a bit of experimentation (food/exercise) and attention to physical and mental well-being it's not hard to assess one's health. The difference for me after going Paleo was noticeable after about two weeks -- improved memory, energy, happiness, sleep, lots of other stuff. I've heard similar stories from others that have become vegan, vegetarian, discovered high-FODMAP insensitivity, etc. Shameless self-promotion: I built http://www.fitsmeapp.com http://www.fitsmeapp.com to help find food (currently just recipes) based on arbitrary user-defined "diets". Feedback is always appreciated.
- a8da6b0c91d 12y agoGoing by how you feel in response to diet changes doesn't necessarily work all that great. Eating loads of meat and under consuming sugar and starch, for example, will send catecholamine levels way up. This will have the short term affect of making you feel better. Inflammation will go down and you'll have more energy. This is the same effect that causes people to say they feel good on a fast. But once you clock up a year or two with elevated catecholamines your health will tank from the stress.
- jlehman 12y agoIt's been two years. Health is great, stress is largely non-existent. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
- newaccountfool 12y agoCan I ask what you have in your Paleo diet? Because I once witnessed some one mention 'Paleo Cookies' which is completely ridiculous which led me to believe it was a fad die that went along with Crossfit.
- bikamonki 12y agoHave we become stupid to the point that we need the Internet to tell us what to eat? What were we eating for millenia before we invented nutrition experts? Is this article of relevance/interest to HN?
- a8da6b0c91d 12y agoDiet matters. There are good scientifically informed choices that can reduce your risk of horrible diseases like cancer and alzheimers. Even in the context of traditional diets there are good ones and bad ones. Do you want to look like this guy: http://www.kimmacquarrie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Mashco-Piro.jpg http://www.kimmacquarrie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Mash... Or this guy: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rTRD-USWhSk/UTIwrhmGFcI/AAAAAAAAATM/ot7IrIUE2HQ/s400/moran-masai-warrior_1.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rTRD-USWhSk/UTIwrhmGFcI/AAAAAAAAAT... They both eat traditional diets, clearly with very different physiological outcomes.
- newaccountfool 12y agoYour making the assumption that because one guy is skinny he is healthier than the other. The 2nd picture (Darker Skinned) is a Maasai Warrior and the other are Mascho Piro. They will probably have different diets and do differencing amounts of exercise daily, but just because one is thin and one is not as thin, doesn't say anything about health.
- bikamonki 12y agoBoth look healthy to me ;) The problem is that since we do not have the means to conduct the scientific experiments ourselves we rely on experts and public agencies. Hard to tell if either is working unbiased. So, in lack of certainty and trust, I rather just eat as my grandparents did. So far so good!
- jackalope 12y agoI find it fascinating that: The very cornerstone of dietary advice for generations..." ...is being challenged because: Critics have pointed out that Dr. Keys violated several basic scientific norms in his study. It's a cautionary tale worth telling no matter the discipline. Studies are often accepted without much challenge because we assume that rigorous controls were in place. But the adage of "Garbage in, garbage out" remains a fundamental truth. I think that is what is relevant and interesting to HN readers.
- ericxb 12y agoRelated: Study Questions Fat Heart Disease Link http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat... A Lifelong Fight Against Trans Fats http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/health/a-lifelong-fight-against-trans-fat.html?_r=1& http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/health/a-lifelong-fight-ag... The Oiling of America https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8