6 ms·

I think you're describing a sales guy versus a programmer. In my experience, "businesses guys" are actually professional bullshit detectors. It's one of the rea

I think you're describing a sales guy versus a programmer. In my experience, "businesses guys" are actually professional bullshit detectors. It's one of the reasons you want them in on the actual contract negotiations. A skilled business guy has an amazing way of boiling things down, spotting inconsistencies, and seeing where relationships are likely to fall apart. Sales guys on the other hand are professional bullshit machines. They heavily rely on being able to read your tone and state of mind so that they can tailor the message to whatever they think will resound with you the most. And that's way easier to do on the phone.

danieltillett 12y ago
Sales people love the phone as they have a competitive advantage over customers here - remember most sales people have been selected for their ability to bullshit via talking. It actually does make me wonder if you can hire sales people that have their edge via email conversation.
- cjf4 12y ago
  The most important thing in any type of sales is building some sort of rapport or connection with the customer/prospect/potential client, and it's way easier to do that on the phone.
- ape4 12y ago
  Its considered rude to hang up. You have to give some reason then they can refute it.
  - dkuntz2 12y ago
    "I'm sorry, I don't want to talk to you anymore" click...
    - desipenguin 12y ago
      While I upvoted the comment - I know it is easier to write "I don't want to talk to you" than say it (even if it is on phone. In-person is even more difficult)
Fede_V 12y ago
This is my own biased impression, but with rare exceptions, almost every article I've read in mainstream business publications (like Harvard Business Review, etc) has had a ratio of content to bullshit that was astonishing. Articles about 'enterprise communication' or 'bold leadership' or 'delighting customers' might have a simple message that takes about up about a paragraph and are then dressed up in a huge amount of un-necessary business speak or 'folksy' stories that illustrate the concept. I'm sure this is just observer bias, but from someone in a technical field, it's astonishing how shallow the concepts are.
- JimmyM 12y ago
  The concepts are shallow primarily because business nous is often a raw sort of intelligence, where you're responding in real time to an exact specific situation rather than planning and developing a concept which will cover all your needs in advance. That's my take on it, at any rate. I've never got much from mainstream business publications either (although, hang on a moment, Hacker News is at least a very popular business curation...)
- exelius 12y ago
  HBR is notoriously full of bullshit (just like many guys from Harvard). The thing to understand about business schools is that they're still academia: most of the professors have no clue how the world really works outside a university. About the only ones with real-world experience are the finance professors, and big banking is its own special world. It's fine though, because their job is to teach. At the end of the day though, business schools teach you all sorts of things you'll never use again: they tend to be heavy on statistics and calculus. The key is that you don't necessarily have to know how to do them yourself, just that there is a good methodology for solving these problems and what skills to look for in people you hire to actually do the grunt work for you. I don't remember how to do a linear regression myself, but I know how to read the output of one and the right questions to ask to make sure I understand exactly what it's telling me.
  - Fede_V 12y ago
    Again, my impression is that the main 'value added' that things like a business school gives you is the credentials and the network of alumni. In terms of tangible things that you learn, if you want to study calculus and statistics, you can pick those up from 1st year classes at any decent technical university. I'd also argue against your example of 'professors outside of the real world'. At any top tier University, professors will be world experts on their particular area of expertise, and will be able to apply it to real world problems, and I'd be happy to provide as many examples as you'd like in technical fields that I'm familiar with.
abuari 12y ago
I second this sentiment. In part because a good business person should be someone who listens and synthesizes multiple views prior to speaking about something. You'd be amazed at how much 'business savvy' is just listening and keeping one's mouth shut.

danieltillett 12y ago

Sales people love the phone as they have a competitive advantage over customers here - remember most sales people have been selected for their ability to bullshit via talking. It actually does make me wonder if you can hire sales people that have their edge via email conversation.

cjf4 12y ago
The most important thing in any type of sales is building some sort of rapport or connection with the customer/prospect/potential client, and it's way easier to do that on the phone.
ape4 12y ago
Its considered rude to hang up. You have to give some reason then they can refute it.
- dkuntz2 12y ago
  "I'm sorry, I don't want to talk to you anymore" click...
  - desipenguin 12y ago
    While I upvoted the comment - I know it is easier to write "I don't want to talk to you" than say it (even if it is on phone. In-person is even more difficult)

Fede_V 12y ago

This is my own biased impression, but with rare exceptions, almost every article I've read in mainstream business publications (like Harvard Business Review, etc) has had a ratio of content to bullshit that was astonishing. Articles about 'enterprise communication' or 'bold leadership' or 'delighting customers' might have a simple message that takes about up about a paragraph and are then dressed up in a huge amount of un-necessary business speak or 'folksy' stories that illustrate the concept. I'm sure this is just observer bias, but from someone in a technical field, it's astonishing how shallow the concepts are.

JimmyM 12y ago
The concepts are shallow primarily because business nous is often a raw sort of intelligence, where you're responding in real time to an exact specific situation rather than planning and developing a concept which will cover all your needs in advance. That's my take on it, at any rate. I've never got much from mainstream business publications either (although, hang on a moment, Hacker News is at least a very popular business curation...)
exelius 12y ago
HBR is notoriously full of bullshit (just like many guys from Harvard). The thing to understand about business schools is that they're still academia: most of the professors have no clue how the world really works outside a university. About the only ones with real-world experience are the finance professors, and big banking is its own special world. It's fine though, because their job is to teach. At the end of the day though, business schools teach you all sorts of things you'll never use again: they tend to be heavy on statistics and calculus. The key is that you don't necessarily have to know how to do them yourself, just that there is a good methodology for solving these problems and what skills to look for in people you hire to actually do the grunt work for you. I don't remember how to do a linear regression myself, but I know how to read the output of one and the right questions to ask to make sure I understand exactly what it's telling me.
- Fede_V 12y ago
  Again, my impression is that the main 'value added' that things like a business school gives you is the credentials and the network of alumni. In terms of tangible things that you learn, if you want to study calculus and statistics, you can pick those up from 1st year classes at any decent technical university. I'd also argue against your example of 'professors outside of the real world'. At any top tier University, professors will be world experts on their particular area of expertise, and will be able to apply it to real world problems, and I'd be happy to provide as many examples as you'd like in technical fields that I'm familiar with.

abuari 12y ago

I second this sentiment. In part because a good business person should be someone who listens and synthesizes multiple views prior to speaking about something. You'd be amazed at how much 'business savvy' is just listening and keeping one's mouth shut.