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Software companies can't do software either. It's draconian masters that force usability on programmers that would be happy if the world ran on CLI. You know it

forgottenpass 12y ago
Software companies can't do software either. It's draconian masters that force usability on programmers that would be happy if the world ran on CLI. You know its the truth, or you haven't really worked with programmers before. We have one guy on our software team that this describes. The rest of your post is condescending assumption that ALL of us have the unix beard and vim editor of that one dude. Paradoxically he is one of the iPhone owners in our Android heavy group. In conclusion, I guess I've never really worked with programmers before.
ginko 12y ago
That's because the CLI is better than the average GUI.
- collyw 12y ago
  I think that entirely depends on what you are trying to achieve.
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  And also because if you start with a CLI, you don't end up with a GUI where the functional code is embedded in the button event handlers. The CLI makes it easier to force developers to separate the functionality from the user interface. You still might have the guy that puts all the code inside Main( string[] args ), obviously, but at least that code is easier to test. Just like removing the presence of alcohol from the alcoholic may allow him to resist temptation and become a better person, removing the GUI from people with bad GUI coding habits may allow them to resist temptation and write better code. But maybe not. It also helps you discover who actually knows how to write software, and who is dependent on the development environment to erect all the scaffolding for them.
- pessimizer 12y ago
  The worst CLI apps are terse, require too much domain knowledge to configure, and lack sensible (or any) defaults. The worst GUIs are like the baby that would result if Dali and Duchamp copulated in a live action Candyland game.
chipotle_coyote 12y ago
I've worked with programmers for ~25 years at this point (side note: I'm old), and this describes a kind of personality type that's out there, to be sure, and a type that's perhaps disproportionately represented on HN and, back when people used it, Slashdot. But that's not all programmers. A lot of the people I've met -- or just know of -- who are terrific at user experience design are people who have an engineering or development background of some kind. The software companies that produce the best UX don't do so because there's a "draconian master" forcing the programmers not to just have Macs boot directly into Emacs and give users electric shocks when they click the mouse button. They have teams that are actually interested in UX design. Everyone I've met doing engineering at Apple cares about this sort of stuff. And while I'm sure there are programmers out there disappointed that their Android phones don't boot into console mode, none of those programmers are people on the Android team who have only been held back from doing so by the Iron Fist of Sergey.

forgottenpass 12y ago

Software companies can't do software either. It's draconian masters that force usability on programmers that would be happy if the world ran on CLI. You know its the truth, or you haven't really worked with programmers before. We have one guy on our software team that this describes. The rest of your post is condescending assumption that ALL of us have the unix beard and vim editor of that one dude. Paradoxically he is one of the iPhone owners in our Android heavy group. In conclusion, I guess I've never really worked with programmers before.

ginko 12y ago

That's because the CLI is better than the average GUI.

collyw 12y ago
I think that entirely depends on what you are trying to achieve.
logfromblammo 12y ago
And also because if you start with a CLI, you don't end up with a GUI where the functional code is embedded in the button event handlers. The CLI makes it easier to force developers to separate the functionality from the user interface. You still might have the guy that puts all the code inside Main( string[] args ), obviously, but at least that code is easier to test. Just like removing the presence of alcohol from the alcoholic may allow him to resist temptation and become a better person, removing the GUI from people with bad GUI coding habits may allow them to resist temptation and write better code. But maybe not. It also helps you discover who actually knows how to write software, and who is dependent on the development environment to erect all the scaffolding for them.
pessimizer 12y ago
The worst CLI apps are terse, require too much domain knowledge to configure, and lack sensible (or any) defaults. The worst GUIs are like the baby that would result if Dali and Duchamp copulated in a live action Candyland game.

chipotle_coyote 12y ago

I've worked with programmers for ~25 years at this point (side note: I'm old), and this describes a kind of personality type that's out there, to be sure, and a type that's perhaps disproportionately represented on HN and, back when people used it, Slashdot. But that's not all programmers. A lot of the people I've met -- or just know of -- who are terrific at user experience design are people who have an engineering or development background of some kind. The software companies that produce the best UX don't do so because there's a "draconian master" forcing the programmers not to just have Macs boot directly into Emacs and give users electric shocks when they click the mouse button. They have teams that are actually interested in UX design. Everyone I've met doing engineering at Apple cares about this sort of stuff. And while I'm sure there are programmers out there disappointed that their Android phones don't boot into console mode, none of those programmers are people on the Android team who have only been held back from doing so by the Iron Fist of Sergey.