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Why Facebook Can’t Figure Out What to Do With Its Apps

45 points by moisy 12y ago

lettergram 12y ago
To be honest, once Facebook strips the messenger app from the main app I'm done using Facebook. I don't want to agree to the new terms and conditions.
- griffinmb 12y ago
  I may be wrong, but I think you misunderstood the 'stripping the messenger app' bit. It's not referring to the web app, just the ios app. Facebook stripped the messenger app from the main iPhone app a few months ago. I don't think there are any additional TOS.
  - wlesieutre 12y ago
    Messaging is definitely still in the main iOS app. They advertise "The new Messenger" with banners to get you to switch, but I haven't bothered. I tried it out briefly, and IIRC had some trouble with chat notifications still coming from the main Facebook app. I could turn off notifications for it, but that'd kill all of the other notifications too. Making chat only in Messenger would solve this, if they haven't fixed it already.
    - griffinmb 12y ago
      Interesting. Maybe Facebook is doing some kind of rollout, because I didn't feel like making the switch but eventually I was forced to. I still get the notifications in my original FB app, but when I press "messages," I'm taken to the Messenger app.
      - wlesieutre 12y ago
        Just tried again, it looks like once you have Messenger installed it gets disabled in the main app. And this time my message notifications are coming from the actual app that I can read messages in, so I'll stick with it.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
the_watcher 12y ago
I like that they've done with Messenger. All they did was make an app specifically designed for messaging and remove the bolted on version from the main app. You shouldn't notice any UX differences once you install the new Messenger app thanks to the wonders of deeplinking.
- ionforce 12y ago
  I guess this matters less and less as old phones get phased out, but I think there is some memory overhead in having two apps rather than one. Like if you switch apps and then the reaper elects to kill your first app, the switch back isn't so nice. Whatever, edge case. Another UX edge case is when you hit Messenger directly, there's no backlink to Facebook. That's kind of blah.
  - the_watcher 12y ago
    Yeah, that is irritating, but when the deeplinking to Messenger first started, there was never a backlink to the Facebook app. That's changed, and I bet Messenger will too.
the_watcher 12y ago
Bundling information and bundling of functionality are being mixed up with this article. Facebook doesn't care about bundling information differently between apps, they care about narrowly designed functionality for each app.
- samstave 12y ago
  FB is a culture of vertical scrolling silos.
bsimpson 12y ago
It seems like there are three obvious divisions of the Facebook product: - Chat - Shared content (news feed/photos/etc) - Events I wonder what the world looks like in which each is treated as a separate product with a common login. I imagine that the size of the user base goes up, but total usage could go down. I know many people who don't have Facebook because they don't like the constant distraction of its shared content core, but would be open to using it for chat and events (if only because everyone else is). At the same time, there are probably existing users who haven't abandoned it yet because of events/chat, but would like to be less distracted by the content stream. If someone could install only Messenger and Events, effectively opting into those two products and out of Paper, it's not hard to imagine a sizable subset of the Facebook population doing exactly that.
- a8000 12y ago
  I think a startup focussing on only events and doing them well could have some potential.
  - dethstar 12y ago
    Perhaps http://www.gethotspotapp.com/ http://www.gethotspotapp.com/
  - buro9 12y ago
    http://attending.io/ http://attending.io/ is doing this. They're focusing on the market below EventBrite, small free events and small venue (i.e. tech user talks) that may require a small fee. It's really refreshing to be able to just say "I want to attend that event" and for it to be a few clicks rather than an arduous check-out process. Note: Whilst they have a "browse" button at the top, they've started by providing stand-alone pages that act as a flyer and mini-promo site for the event... this is a tool with great potential, not a fully mature product. Example of an event page http://attending.io/events/how-to-market-through-influencers-trends-tools-techniques http://attending.io/events/how-to-market-through-influencers...
    - debt 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
d1str0 12y ago
If Facebook strips the ability to message from the main app, I will no longer use Facebook for messaging. As an adroid user, Google's Hangouts is way better at connecting my gchat and sms and I will then have no use for another standalone messaging app.
evanmoran 12y ago
In my view Facebook separating out Chat from its core Facebook app was a brilliant move. It simplifies its core UI, yes, but even more makes the integration of WhatsApp into something that might actually make sense. Imagine WhatsApp built into the FB chat app... That's a huge, extremely active user base. Lastly, if the worst happens and the core FB popularity declines, this new app could live a VERY long time. The only thing close in competition is GChat, but considering how popular WhatsApp is and its powerful reach into mobile, this could be the dominant chat platform going forward.
- griffinmb 12y ago
  Just to add to this... I was reluctant to migrate to the Messenger app, but, since being forced to change, I can see the benefits. Though I don't use it very much, my girlfriend prefers it over any other messaging service (SMS, email, etc). I think it was a smart move.
cliveowen 12y ago
I think they may have finally found their path to irrelevance. I used to go to Facebook (the website) everyday, multiple times a day. They changed it for worse with every update, so I dropped the site and started using the app, but even the app kept changing for the worse and it's now a total mess. Then this morning I realized that it's been a week since I last used Facebook, and I'm pretty sure that in a couple months I'll be ready to drop it completely.
- Spooky23 12y ago
  I'm in the same place -- I think the company takes itself too seriously. It's not fun to use anymore -- I'm always getting these stern warnings about new privacy policies, and they are always screwing around with the timeline. For example, now the Facebook gods have decreed that I will view the vapid posts of acquaintances who insist on posting "look how happy my family is" pictures, and buries posts from people whom I actually interact with on Facebook.
  - AznHisoka 12y ago
    I think the media takes them too seriously as well. it's just a company that facilitates the sharing of LOLCat photos. Yes, its big data hard technically at that scale, but at the core, it's not a Google.
Killswitch 12y ago
Man, why the heck are they trying to split everything off into their own apps? If I am using the main app to browse my feed and I get a message, why the heck do I want to swap to another app to answer it?
- rkuykendall-com 12y ago
  You don't. Just like when you're browsing HN and you get a message you don't want to swap to another app to answer it. That's why the separated Facebook chat app uses message bubbles that you can answer in any app: http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-16-at-1.47.25-PM.jpg http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-S... Honestly, it's brilliant, and the sole reason I use Facebook chat for most of my communications.
  - mcintyre1994 12y ago
    I had no idea they'd managed to make that work for iOS, that's awesome. Definitely agree, FB chat bubbles for Android are one of the best user experiences I've seen.
    - aianus 12y ago
      AFAIK, on iOS it only works within Facebook's apps. Pretty lame experience compared to the Android version.
      - rkuykendall-com 12y ago
        Oh wow, it never occurred to me that it would be Android only. iOS users are REALLY missing out. It's the best mobile chat experience I've ever had.
  - Killswitch 12y ago
    I have that in my current facebook but I do not use the messenger app at all or have it installed.
jeswin 12y ago
On the contrary, I think this is about FaceBook knowing exactly what the future holds. - FB probably recognizes that a Social Network is at its core a directory of connections and the ability to message/talk to each other. Until now it took a backseat to over-shared content, when it should have been the other way round. - This app could serve as the foundation for the next FaceBook. Once you strip down an app to its essentials, you can very carefully add features based on data and the lessons learned. - We are moving towards more selective, opt-in types of engagement, as opposed to carpet bombing with the content feed. For example, there are only a couple of dozen people whose feeds I care about. Those are most likely the people who I interact with or message often. What I want is the ability to mark certain people as "interesting" so that I see their statuses, instead of having to "hide" everybody else. (add:) Same with groups, follows etc.
- pekk 12y ago
  > FB probably recognizes that a Social Network is at its core a directory of connections and the ability to message/talk to each other How many years of hype did it take to bring us to this moment, where we realized we had reinvented ICQ/AIM? I know, I know, I'm being reductive. There is also a sort of Geocities thing bolted on. You know, like Friendster and Myspace
  - taiki 12y ago
    if ICQ was so wonderful to use then why did we flee to the next best thing to come along? My feeling was that ICQ sucked in a very horrible way. I was never around for the Friendster days(I was a Livejoural user through and through, damn it), however the reason I suspect MySpace lost out is that they did do the GeoCities thing. Everytime I see people complaining about a new Facebook layout, I always think, "Is this worse than the best MySpace page?" Answer is always no. It's not that we're reinventing ICQ or AIM or MySpace or whatever, it's that we're refining the, oh god I hate using this word, "experience" of using it. Does Facebook have random flash things pegging my CPU to render a cube in 3D with my friend's vacation photos on each face? Does Facebook have auto-playing music? Does Facebook have the option of setting the page's colors to be hideously garish? I also think Facebook is realizing this, and they're trying to retool their business away from Facebook this website you visit, to Facebook a thing where all of these neat services are wired up to. I don't know if they'll succeed, but at least they have the sense to know they're not going to be on top forever.
frade33 12y ago
They actually don't want to do anything with them. And I don't even get, how they would keep grabbing their rivals without triggering anti-trust investigation. As soon as any social startup rises to the sky, they would grab it. Since the social itself is worthless in terms of making money, so anyone would easily get acquired, because they don't have any other choice, and definitely acquisition by Facebook, Apple, Google or Microsoft is and was their only business model.
ganessh 12y ago
Who knows. In their dataware house all they need is email id to link data from different apps to have a great knowledge about you and send more targeted ads.
koko775 12y ago
Disclaimer: ex-Facebooker. > Similarly, there’s a logic to giving Paper some more features, or “bloat,” as engineers derisively call such additions. Although it’s awkward to cram more information into a hidden tab on Paper — if birthdays are so important, why aren’t they in Paper’s main news feed? — the additional information also helps Paper live up to its billing as a place for news and stories from your social graph. For some people, birthdays and invitations are a vital part of that news stream, even if, for others, such information is trivial or better placed in the core Facebook app. 1. The Events and Birthday features were planned before Paper was announced. It's not feature bloat, it's a "second release" feature planned ahead of time. 2. Paper is optimized for a high-quality reading experience, especially longer content, as evidenced by the meticulous attention to detail in the text rendering and the horizontal scrolling. Birthdays would take up a lot of space in the story stream for relatively little content (and how would you order it within the feed, anyway?). Look at the birthday indicator on Facebook WWW, and tell me a name and three words are worth a screen-sized card in the stream. I would be very skeptical. 3. Birthdays arrive regularly and in chronological order. The Notifications jewel is the best place for these things - people also visit it regularly and there's a chronological ordering to it. As for Nearby, the argument is flimsy. Changing strategy doesn't have to mean sabotaging in-flight development. Perhaps Nearby was developed before or during planning for the shift to the new strategy.
- lukasb 12y ago
  Am I the only person who thinks the body text on the shrunken preview cards looks terrible? edit: was reacting to "meticulous attention to detail in the text rendering"
chris_wot 12y ago
Nice. I'm glad their splitting these apps out, because I'll be able to ignore them as I always did.

45 points by moisy 12y ago

To be honest, once Facebook strips the messenger app from the main app I'm done using Facebook. I don't want to agree to the new terms and conditions.

griffinmb 12y ago
I may be wrong, but I think you misunderstood the 'stripping the messenger app' bit. It's not referring to the web app, just the ios app. Facebook stripped the messenger app from the main iPhone app a few months ago. I don't think there are any additional TOS.
- wlesieutre 12y ago
  Messaging is definitely still in the main iOS app. They advertise "The new Messenger" with banners to get you to switch, but I haven't bothered. I tried it out briefly, and IIRC had some trouble with chat notifications still coming from the main Facebook app. I could turn off notifications for it, but that'd kill all of the other notifications too. Making chat only in Messenger would solve this, if they haven't fixed it already.
  - griffinmb 12y ago
    Interesting. Maybe Facebook is doing some kind of rollout, because I didn't feel like making the switch but eventually I was forced to. I still get the notifications in my original FB app, but when I press "messages," I'm taken to the Messenger app.
    - wlesieutre 12y ago
      Just tried again, it looks like once you have Messenger installed it gets disabled in the main app. And this time my message notifications are coming from the actual app that I can read messages in, so I'll stick with it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

the_watcher 12y ago

I like that they've done with Messenger. All they did was make an app specifically designed for messaging and remove the bolted on version from the main app. You shouldn't notice any UX differences once you install the new Messenger app thanks to the wonders of deeplinking.

ionforce 12y ago
I guess this matters less and less as old phones get phased out, but I think there is some memory overhead in having two apps rather than one. Like if you switch apps and then the reaper elects to kill your first app, the switch back isn't so nice. Whatever, edge case. Another UX edge case is when you hit Messenger directly, there's no backlink to Facebook. That's kind of blah.
- the_watcher 12y ago
  Yeah, that is irritating, but when the deeplinking to Messenger first started, there was never a backlink to the Facebook app. That's changed, and I bet Messenger will too.

the_watcher 12y ago

Bundling information and bundling of functionality are being mixed up with this article. Facebook doesn't care about bundling information differently between apps, they care about narrowly designed functionality for each app.

samstave 12y ago
FB is a culture of vertical scrolling silos.

bsimpson 12y ago

It seems like there are three obvious divisions of the Facebook product: - Chat - Shared content (news feed/photos/etc) - Events I wonder what the world looks like in which each is treated as a separate product with a common login. I imagine that the size of the user base goes up, but total usage could go down. I know many people who don't have Facebook because they don't like the constant distraction of its shared content core, but would be open to using it for chat and events (if only because everyone else is). At the same time, there are probably existing users who haven't abandoned it yet because of events/chat, but would like to be less distracted by the content stream. If someone could install only Messenger and Events, effectively opting into those two products and out of Paper, it's not hard to imagine a sizable subset of the Facebook population doing exactly that.

a8000 12y ago
I think a startup focussing on only events and doing them well could have some potential.
- dethstar 12y ago
  Perhaps http://www.gethotspotapp.com/ http://www.gethotspotapp.com/
- buro9 12y ago
  http://attending.io/ http://attending.io/ is doing this. They're focusing on the market below EventBrite, small free events and small venue (i.e. tech user talks) that may require a small fee. It's really refreshing to be able to just say "I want to attend that event" and for it to be a few clicks rather than an arduous check-out process. Note: Whilst they have a "browse" button at the top, they've started by providing stand-alone pages that act as a flyer and mini-promo site for the event... this is a tool with great potential, not a fully mature product. Example of an event page http://attending.io/events/how-to-market-through-influencers-trends-tools-techniques http://attending.io/events/how-to-market-through-influencers...
  - debt 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

d1str0 12y ago

If Facebook strips the ability to message from the main app, I will no longer use Facebook for messaging. As an adroid user, Google's Hangouts is way better at connecting my gchat and sms and I will then have no use for another standalone messaging app.

evanmoran 12y ago

In my view Facebook separating out Chat from its core Facebook app was a brilliant move. It simplifies its core UI, yes, but even more makes the integration of WhatsApp into something that might actually make sense. Imagine WhatsApp built into the FB chat app... That's a huge, extremely active user base. Lastly, if the worst happens and the core FB popularity declines, this new app could live a VERY long time. The only thing close in competition is GChat, but considering how popular WhatsApp is and its powerful reach into mobile, this could be the dominant chat platform going forward.

griffinmb 12y ago
Just to add to this... I was reluctant to migrate to the Messenger app, but, since being forced to change, I can see the benefits. Though I don't use it very much, my girlfriend prefers it over any other messaging service (SMS, email, etc). I think it was a smart move.

cliveowen 12y ago

I think they may have finally found their path to irrelevance. I used to go to Facebook (the website) everyday, multiple times a day. They changed it for worse with every update, so I dropped the site and started using the app, but even the app kept changing for the worse and it's now a total mess. Then this morning I realized that it's been a week since I last used Facebook, and I'm pretty sure that in a couple months I'll be ready to drop it completely.

Spooky23 12y ago
I'm in the same place -- I think the company takes itself too seriously. It's not fun to use anymore -- I'm always getting these stern warnings about new privacy policies, and they are always screwing around with the timeline. For example, now the Facebook gods have decreed that I will view the vapid posts of acquaintances who insist on posting "look how happy my family is" pictures, and buries posts from people whom I actually interact with on Facebook.
- AznHisoka 12y ago
  I think the media takes them too seriously as well. it's just a company that facilitates the sharing of LOLCat photos. Yes, its big data hard technically at that scale, but at the core, it's not a Google.

Killswitch 12y ago

Man, why the heck are they trying to split everything off into their own apps? If I am using the main app to browse my feed and I get a message, why the heck do I want to swap to another app to answer it?

rkuykendall-com 12y ago
You don't. Just like when you're browsing HN and you get a message you don't want to swap to another app to answer it. That's why the separated Facebook chat app uses message bubbles that you can answer in any app: http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-16-at-1.47.25-PM.jpg http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-S... Honestly, it's brilliant, and the sole reason I use Facebook chat for most of my communications.
- mcintyre1994 12y ago
  I had no idea they'd managed to make that work for iOS, that's awesome. Definitely agree, FB chat bubbles for Android are one of the best user experiences I've seen.
  - aianus 12y ago
    AFAIK, on iOS it only works within Facebook's apps. Pretty lame experience compared to the Android version.
    - rkuykendall-com 12y ago
      Oh wow, it never occurred to me that it would be Android only. iOS users are REALLY missing out. It's the best mobile chat experience I've ever had.
- Killswitch 12y ago
  I have that in my current facebook but I do not use the messenger app at all or have it installed.

jeswin 12y ago

On the contrary, I think this is about FaceBook knowing exactly what the future holds. - FB probably recognizes that a Social Network is at its core a directory of connections and the ability to message/talk to each other. Until now it took a backseat to over-shared content, when it should have been the other way round. - This app could serve as the foundation for the next FaceBook. Once you strip down an app to its essentials, you can very carefully add features based on data and the lessons learned. - We are moving towards more selective, opt-in types of engagement, as opposed to carpet bombing with the content feed. For example, there are only a couple of dozen people whose feeds I care about. Those are most likely the people who I interact with or message often. What I want is the ability to mark certain people as "interesting" so that I see their statuses, instead of having to "hide" everybody else. (add:) Same with groups, follows etc.

pekk 12y ago
> FB probably recognizes that a Social Network is at its core a directory of connections and the ability to message/talk to each other How many years of hype did it take to bring us to this moment, where we realized we had reinvented ICQ/AIM? I know, I know, I'm being reductive. There is also a sort of Geocities thing bolted on. You know, like Friendster and Myspace
- taiki 12y ago
  if ICQ was so wonderful to use then why did we flee to the next best thing to come along? My feeling was that ICQ sucked in a very horrible way. I was never around for the Friendster days(I was a Livejoural user through and through, damn it), however the reason I suspect MySpace lost out is that they did do the GeoCities thing. Everytime I see people complaining about a new Facebook layout, I always think, "Is this worse than the best MySpace page?" Answer is always no. It's not that we're reinventing ICQ or AIM or MySpace or whatever, it's that we're refining the, oh god I hate using this word, "experience" of using it. Does Facebook have random flash things pegging my CPU to render a cube in 3D with my friend's vacation photos on each face? Does Facebook have auto-playing music? Does Facebook have the option of setting the page's colors to be hideously garish? I also think Facebook is realizing this, and they're trying to retool their business away from Facebook this website you visit, to Facebook a thing where all of these neat services are wired up to. I don't know if they'll succeed, but at least they have the sense to know they're not going to be on top forever.

frade33 12y ago

They actually don't want to do anything with them. And I don't even get, how they would keep grabbing their rivals without triggering anti-trust investigation. As soon as any social startup rises to the sky, they would grab it. Since the social itself is worthless in terms of making money, so anyone would easily get acquired, because they don't have any other choice, and definitely acquisition by Facebook, Apple, Google or Microsoft is and was their only business model.

ganessh 12y ago

Who knows. In their dataware house all they need is email id to link data from different apps to have a great knowledge about you and send more targeted ads.

koko775 12y ago

Disclaimer: ex-Facebooker. > Similarly, there’s a logic to giving Paper some more features, or “bloat,” as engineers derisively call such additions. Although it’s awkward to cram more information into a hidden tab on Paper — if birthdays are so important, why aren’t they in Paper’s main news feed? — the additional information also helps Paper live up to its billing as a place for news and stories from your social graph. For some people, birthdays and invitations are a vital part of that news stream, even if, for others, such information is trivial or better placed in the core Facebook app. 1. The Events and Birthday features were planned before Paper was announced. It's not feature bloat, it's a "second release" feature planned ahead of time. 2. Paper is optimized for a high-quality reading experience, especially longer content, as evidenced by the meticulous attention to detail in the text rendering and the horizontal scrolling. Birthdays would take up a lot of space in the story stream for relatively little content (and how would you order it within the feed, anyway?). Look at the birthday indicator on Facebook WWW, and tell me a name and three words are worth a screen-sized card in the stream. I would be very skeptical. 3. Birthdays arrive regularly and in chronological order. The Notifications jewel is the best place for these things - people also visit it regularly and there's a chronological ordering to it. As for Nearby, the argument is flimsy. Changing strategy doesn't have to mean sabotaging in-flight development. Perhaps Nearby was developed before or during planning for the shift to the new strategy.

lukasb 12y ago
Am I the only person who thinks the body text on the shrunken preview cards looks terrible? edit: was reacting to "meticulous attention to detail in the text rendering"

chris_wot 12y ago

Nice. I'm glad their splitting these apps out, because I'll be able to ignore them as I always did.