6 ms·

One one hand I'm happy to see the web able to do more and more. On the other hand, I worry that as we turn the browser into a platform with all these client sid

One one hand I'm happy to see the web able to do more and more. On the other hand, I worry that as we turn the browser into a platform with all these client side capabilities, browsers will become big complicated messes.

vezzy-fnord 12y ago
They already are, to one extent or another. Browsers are rivaling monolithic kernels and entire operating systems with userspace applications in size.
- Rusky 12y ago
  I wish we would see more browser features (cross-browser standards, app deployment style, ability to run random 3rd party code relatively securely, app interoperability) moved into the OS, rather than more OS features moved into the browser.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    We already have them, it is just web devs tend to blindly ignore them.
    - Rusky 12y ago
      I can't quite yet make a native, cross-OS app I can deploy by clicking a link and that anyone will trust not to eat their computer just by running it. It's also a lot more work to implement things like networking.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        JNLP deployment of Java applications. Click once deployment for .NET applications as another example.
        coldtea 12y ago
        Only nobody likes Java desktop applications. Including me, and I've programmed professionally in the language since 1998. And they are non starters for demanding multimedia work, which is some of the most interesting stuff you want to do in the desktop as opposed as a web app. .NET feels better (because MS didn't screw up as much, as Java did with the overengineered uncanny valley mess that is Swing), but it's not cross platform. So, still, not comparable to deploying in the browser sandbox.
        sp332 12y ago
        Mono can run .Net apps on lots of platforms. I'm running the same Tomboy (note-taking) binary on Linux and Windows.
        pjmlp 12y ago
        > So, still, not comparable to deploying in the browser sandbox. That much is true, I haven't yet used so brain damaged set of programming tools as the HTML/JavaScript/CSS gimmick required to make the so called web applications in all browser versions required by our customers.
  - higherpurpose 12y ago
    The problem is then you're stuck with OS dependencies. Browsers are cross-platform.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Given how web development is "write once, debug everywhere, implement hacks everywhere" I have another understanding of cross-platform.
      - Rusky 12y ago
        At least you have the chance to debug everywhere. Current native tools often are just fundamentally incompatible. Even if we just had hacky cross-os standards that'd be better than nothing.
        pjmlp 12y ago
        > At least you have the chance to debug everywhere. Good luck with mobile and set top box browsers.
maaku 12y ago
> I worry that as we turn the browser into a platform with all these client side capabilities, browsers will become big complicated messes. They aren't already?

vezzy-fnord 12y ago

They already are, to one extent or another. Browsers are rivaling monolithic kernels and entire operating systems with userspace applications in size.

Rusky 12y ago
I wish we would see more browser features (cross-browser standards, app deployment style, ability to run random 3rd party code relatively securely, app interoperability) moved into the OS, rather than more OS features moved into the browser.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  We already have them, it is just web devs tend to blindly ignore them.
  - Rusky 12y ago
    I can't quite yet make a native, cross-OS app I can deploy by clicking a link and that anyone will trust not to eat their computer just by running it. It's also a lot more work to implement things like networking.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      JNLP deployment of Java applications. Click once deployment for .NET applications as another example.
      - coldtea 12y ago
        Only nobody likes Java desktop applications. Including me, and I've programmed professionally in the language since 1998. And they are non starters for demanding multimedia work, which is some of the most interesting stuff you want to do in the desktop as opposed as a web app. .NET feels better (because MS didn't screw up as much, as Java did with the overengineered uncanny valley mess that is Swing), but it's not cross platform. So, still, not comparable to deploying in the browser sandbox.
        sp332 12y ago
        Mono can run .Net apps on lots of platforms. I'm running the same Tomboy (note-taking) binary on Linux and Windows.
        pjmlp 12y ago
        > So, still, not comparable to deploying in the browser sandbox. That much is true, I haven't yet used so brain damaged set of programming tools as the HTML/JavaScript/CSS gimmick required to make the so called web applications in all browser versions required by our customers.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  The problem is then you're stuck with OS dependencies. Browsers are cross-platform.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Given how web development is "write once, debug everywhere, implement hacks everywhere" I have another understanding of cross-platform.
    - Rusky 12y ago
      At least you have the chance to debug everywhere. Current native tools often are just fundamentally incompatible. Even if we just had hacky cross-os standards that'd be better than nothing.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        > At least you have the chance to debug everywhere. Good luck with mobile and set top box browsers.

maaku 12y ago

> I worry that as we turn the browser into a platform with all these client side capabilities, browsers will become big complicated messes. They aren't already?