10 ms·

Some people own their own home and still can't use Airbnb because their HOA (Home Owner Association) made a rule that you can't sublet your house. And if you a

Some people own their own home and still can't use Airbnb because their HOA (Home Owner Association) made a rule that you can't sublet your house. And if you are found in abayence of this rule, they can fine you any amount they want per day, and then if you still don't comply, they can sell your house and kick you out of it. So people who have houses with an HOA, they don't technically own their house, they are just borrowing it from the HOA while paying the taxes, insurance, and doing all the work for them to keep the house up.

aidenn0 12y ago
IANAL, but my understanding is that HOAs in California can't put a lien on your property for failing to pay fines, only for failing to pay dues. Furthermore overly punitive fines aren't allowed, and that rule does in fact have teeth (and is also abused by homeowners to make it more expensive to collect fines from them). That means if you pay your dues, but not your fine, the only option the HOA has to collect is to sue you. Once you pass the maximum for small-claims, that starts to get really expensive. Lastly, each homeowner has a common-interest in the HOA, including an equal vote in board-members. For large HOAs, that becomes fairly moot, but for smaller ones, it makes a difference. Now HOAs aren't all sunshine and roses (I prefer to not live in one, primarily since common-interest property tends to be run quite inefficiently), but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.
- mikeho1999 12y ago
  Yes, you are correct, on pretty much all of your points. > IANAL, but my understanding is that HOAs in California can't put a lien on your property for failing to pay fines, only for failing to pay dues. Yes, however, most HOAs do have ways to make it difficult for homeowners who have become delinquent on fines. One common approach is that the CC&Rs allow a delinquent homeowner to be placed as "a member NOT in good standing", which means that the owner will be precluded from using the association amenities (pool, clubhouse, tennis court, etc.) or even being able to vote for board members, until the fine is paid off and the "good standing" is restored. > Furthermore overly punitive fines aren't allowed, and that rule does in fact have teeth (and is also abused by homeowners to make it more expensive to collect fines from them). Not only that, but the Davis-Sterling Act (which is the California state laws that govern common interest developments) as well as most of the local courts in California are very much sided towards the homeowner and against the overall community. Much of the Davis-Sterling Act was written and approved at a time when there was a lot of concern that large community developments would do things to abuse and harm the individual homeowner, or more specifically, that the will of the majority (within a CID) would do things to make life as difficult as possible for those in the minority. Davis-Sterling (and the many of subsequent court cases that dealt with Davis-Sterling) was basically set up to help prevent that as much as possible, unfortunately sometimes to the detriment of well-meaning HOA Boards that are dealing with a delinquent homeowner that understands these loopholes and uses them to willingly violate rules, or skirt out of paying fines, etc.
mikeho1999 12y ago
> "they are just borrowing it from the HOA while paying the taxes, insurance, and doing all the work for them to keep the house up." I'm not sure if this sentence was meant to be snarky or if this was a genuine comment... if it's the former, then heheh, I will agree that the sentiment of the sentence does have some merit. But if it's the latter, I just wanted to try and clear something up -- speaking as an owner of a condo (in an HOA) and as the former president of our HOA. Typically, owners of homes within an HOA are classified as owners in a "common interest development", where owners are all equal share holders of the development as a whole. Meaning, if there are 100 homeowners in a condo community, each homeowner owns an equal share (1%) of that overall community's property. The owner is not "borrowing" anything from the HOA... especially since the HOA, itself, doesn't actually own anything at all. The HOA is technically a corporation (yes, all HOAs are incorporated as a corporation, at least in the State of California) which has been chartered to manage and maintain the common interest development property, while maintaining things like the reserve fund, enforcement of the CC&Rs, architectural reviews, etc. SO as a homeowner in the common interest, you actually own the HOA (and not the other way around). Furthermore, homeowners within an HOA are granted limited, exclusive use of a certain part of the overall property... in most cases, that is the space inside condo or townhouse unit itself, and maybe a patio or yard, etc. What's key is the limited part of "limited, exclusive use", as well as what is noted in the CC&Rs, itself, which describes the definition of what is "limited". Yes, these limitations can very well (and usually do) include provisions on what can or cannot be rented out, how long guests can stay within your home, etc. Typically, these provisions are not meant to make life difficult, but these provisions are in place to help maintain the overall property value of the all the homes in the community. But the most important thing to note is that the CC&Rs are, in fact determined by all of the homeowners, and not by some arbitrary "HOA" or "powers that be", etc. CC&Rs are (or should be) regularly reviewed by the board members of the HOA, and changes are required to be approved by a certain majority (or supermajority) of homeowners by anonymous vote (again, at least this is how it is in the State of California, as dictated by the Davis-Sterling Act). Bottom line: if you are a homeowner in a condo or townhouse community and feel like you have no freedom to do with the home that you rightfully own, just remember that you actually just own a portion of a much larger community/property, and thus, you are bound by some of the limitations / restrictions that the overall community has placed on each owner. But moreover, if you feel that some of those limitations / restrictions are unjust, unfair, or outdated, then work with the HOA Board (or better yet, actually be on the HOA board) and work with your neighbors to get those rules and regulations changed.

aidenn0 12y ago

IANAL, but my understanding is that HOAs in California can't put a lien on your property for failing to pay fines, only for failing to pay dues. Furthermore overly punitive fines aren't allowed, and that rule does in fact have teeth (and is also abused by homeowners to make it more expensive to collect fines from them). That means if you pay your dues, but not your fine, the only option the HOA has to collect is to sue you. Once you pass the maximum for small-claims, that starts to get really expensive. Lastly, each homeowner has a common-interest in the HOA, including an equal vote in board-members. For large HOAs, that becomes fairly moot, but for smaller ones, it makes a difference. Now HOAs aren't all sunshine and roses (I prefer to not live in one, primarily since common-interest property tends to be run quite inefficiently), but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

mikeho1999 12y ago
Yes, you are correct, on pretty much all of your points. > IANAL, but my understanding is that HOAs in California can't put a lien on your property for failing to pay fines, only for failing to pay dues. Yes, however, most HOAs do have ways to make it difficult for homeowners who have become delinquent on fines. One common approach is that the CC&Rs allow a delinquent homeowner to be placed as "a member NOT in good standing", which means that the owner will be precluded from using the association amenities (pool, clubhouse, tennis court, etc.) or even being able to vote for board members, until the fine is paid off and the "good standing" is restored. > Furthermore overly punitive fines aren't allowed, and that rule does in fact have teeth (and is also abused by homeowners to make it more expensive to collect fines from them). Not only that, but the Davis-Sterling Act (which is the California state laws that govern common interest developments) as well as most of the local courts in California are very much sided towards the homeowner and against the overall community. Much of the Davis-Sterling Act was written and approved at a time when there was a lot of concern that large community developments would do things to abuse and harm the individual homeowner, or more specifically, that the will of the majority (within a CID) would do things to make life as difficult as possible for those in the minority. Davis-Sterling (and the many of subsequent court cases that dealt with Davis-Sterling) was basically set up to help prevent that as much as possible, unfortunately sometimes to the detriment of well-meaning HOA Boards that are dealing with a delinquent homeowner that understands these loopholes and uses them to willingly violate rules, or skirt out of paying fines, etc.

mikeho1999 12y ago

> "they are just borrowing it from the HOA while paying the taxes, insurance, and doing all the work for them to keep the house up." I'm not sure if this sentence was meant to be snarky or if this was a genuine comment... if it's the former, then heheh, I will agree that the sentiment of the sentence does have some merit. But if it's the latter, I just wanted to try and clear something up -- speaking as an owner of a condo (in an HOA) and as the former president of our HOA. Typically, owners of homes within an HOA are classified as owners in a "common interest development", where owners are all equal share holders of the development as a whole. Meaning, if there are 100 homeowners in a condo community, each homeowner owns an equal share (1%) of that overall community's property. The owner is not "borrowing" anything from the HOA... especially since the HOA, itself, doesn't actually own anything at all. The HOA is technically a corporation (yes, all HOAs are incorporated as a corporation, at least in the State of California) which has been chartered to manage and maintain the common interest development property, while maintaining things like the reserve fund, enforcement of the CC&Rs, architectural reviews, etc. SO as a homeowner in the common interest, you actually own the HOA (and not the other way around). Furthermore, homeowners within an HOA are granted limited, exclusive use of a certain part of the overall property... in most cases, that is the space inside condo or townhouse unit itself, and maybe a patio or yard, etc. What's key is the limited part of "limited, exclusive use", as well as what is noted in the CC&Rs, itself, which describes the definition of what is "limited". Yes, these limitations can very well (and usually do) include provisions on what can or cannot be rented out, how long guests can stay within your home, etc. Typically, these provisions are not meant to make life difficult, but these provisions are in place to help maintain the overall property value of the all the homes in the community. But the most important thing to note is that the CC&Rs are, in fact determined by all of the homeowners, and not by some arbitrary "HOA" or "powers that be", etc. CC&Rs are (or should be) regularly reviewed by the board members of the HOA, and changes are required to be approved by a certain majority (or supermajority) of homeowners by anonymous vote (again, at least this is how it is in the State of California, as dictated by the Davis-Sterling Act). Bottom line: if you are a homeowner in a condo or townhouse community and feel like you have no freedom to do with the home that you rightfully own, just remember that you actually just own a portion of a much larger community/property, and thus, you are bound by some of the limitations / restrictions that the overall community has placed on each owner. But moreover, if you feel that some of those limitations / restrictions are unjust, unfair, or outdated, then work with the HOA Board (or better yet, actually be on the HOA board) and work with your neighbors to get those rules and regulations changed.