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After Twitter, this was expected. Just couple of hours ago, leaked audio recordings were uploaded to Youtube which show "Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, Nati

After Twitter, this was expected. Just couple of hours ago, leaked audio recordings were uploaded to Youtube which show "Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, National Intelligence Organization (MİT) Undersecretary Hakan Fidan, Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu and Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Güler are heard discussing possible intervention into Syria and possible reactions from the world" They were planning to organize artificial attacks from Syrian border and put the blame on Syria and strength Erdogan's position before local elections.

contulluipeste 12y ago
This sounds like a political dismissal of an inconvenient tool. Can this be just temporary? Like YouTube being "rehabilitated" after those local elections?
gkhnarik 12y ago
I disagree with your last sentence. Because of the problem in Syria our borders are not secure and Turkey is trying to solve this problem diplomatically for a year. Recently ISID threatened Turkey to attack Sulaiman Sah and after that government started to think about a military attack to that area. You can't just say "they want to attack Syria to strength Erdogan's position."
- hocaoglv 12y ago
  Actually I didn't say they wanted to attack, the Turkish government wants "Syria to attack" in order to justify a potential war.
- gkhnarik 12y ago
  @hocaoglv Sorry I misunderstood this part. This tape really annoyed me.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  This implies that they do: http://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/21i3u1/turkish_foreign_minister_head_of_the_national/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/21i3u1/turkish_forei...
cryoshon 12y ago
It's pretty ghastly that people are willing to fabricate rationale for getting into war. I really hope that the Turks dispose of their leaders expediently and forcefully.
- toyg 12y ago
  Yeah, like US and UK populations voted out their chief warmongers pronto, once it came out that the rationale for getting into the Iraq war was fabricated... oh wait
  - oblio 12y ago
    Also Kosovo :)
  - MWil 12y ago
    just morbidly curious but what's the date that came out?
    - toyg 12y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier By late 2003 it was already clear.
    - whiskeychaser 12y ago
      when we never found any WMD...so ongoing I guess.
  - jann 12y ago
    I'm very sorry but I really don't like that argument. That doesn't make it any less ghastly for others to be like that as well. The argument you bring seems similar to what people say about the Crimea-Crisis (that 'the west' isn't allowed to complain because of Bosnia). Just because 'the west' interfered illegally in Bosnia, doesn't give Russia a free pass to do so as well.
narag 12y ago
Is there any information about when the recordings were made? I ask because, well, after weeks knowing that their conversations were being intercepted, it would be utterly stupid to still discuss sensitive matters on the phone. If on the contrary, they're old recordings, this seems like a strategy by the spies to slowly release damning evidence. Nice.
- toyg 12y ago
  99% of political activity runs over phone lines. Not using phones would basically shut down the whole government and parliament, throwing a country back to the XIX century, it just can't be done. What you can do is to change phones and to loudly complain with your counter-espionage and police arms that this stuff shouldn't happen. Except Erdogan has lost most of those constituencies already, which is why these leaks are happening in the first place.
yread 12y ago
Maybe they already started following the plan: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/turkey-shoots-down-syrian-plane http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/turkey-shoots-d...
- cinquemb 12y ago
  Makes you wonder, if everything had gone to the original plan in syria already, nat gas pipelines would be headed to europe by now and the IMF wouldn't bother with the gazprom bill to russia… Also interesting how there has been very little action about the blackouts from the State Dept talking heads (beyond the toothless shaming), if this had been a country not doing the bidding of tptb we would probably hear of sanctions against turkish corps in the us.
  - bayesianhorse 12y ago
    Are you suggesting that a "western conspiracy" was responsible for the turmoil in Syria? That their people did not have serious grievances with a regime that tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people for political reasons even before the current conflict started?
    - pessimizer 12y ago
      >Are you suggesting that a "western conspiracy" was responsible for the turmoil in Syria? Who are you quoting? And is "conspiracy" just a pejorative word for 'intervention' or 'decision?' >That their people did not have serious grievances with a regime that tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people for political reasons even before the current conflict started? Are you suggesting that your first statement and your second statement are equivalent? That people did have serious grievances before the current conflict would lead me to ask 'why now?'
    - cinquemb 12y ago
      Not necessarily (because the conflict is not black and white), just that "the west" (if you include Qatar, Saudi Arabia[0], Israel, etc…) and "the east" all have interests in the region and have manipulated the conflict on multiple levels regardless of environment before Syria went "hot". Just like everywhere else in the world where someone is trying to make a buck… Some of those interests have been well stated by the CFR[1] and RAND years… Besides, "the west" didn't step into Iraq until the beginning of the 90's (and even then didn't dispose him until the 00's) while Saddam who was being bankrolled by the west was doing their bidding as well as torturing and murdering tens of thousands of people in the 80's… and even now, thousands more continue to die in northern Iraq and I don't hear people parroting that around, so lets not try to evoke the knee jerk emotions and remember all "sides" have blood on their hands in pursuit of their self interests… [0] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-syria-crisis-saudi-insight-idUSBRE94U0ZV20130531 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-syria-crisis-sa... [1] http://www.cfr.org/qatar/tiny-qatars-big-plans-may-change-mideast/p26143 http://www.cfr.org/qatar/tiny-qatars-big-plans-may-change-mi...
shna 12y ago
No where in that recording mention about strengthening Erdogan's position before local elections. On the contrary they mention that Erdogan actually not acting on it all, one of the voice proposes that Head of Turkish Army and couple of other officials should get together while PM present and clarify on how to help rebel groups.

contulluipeste 12y ago

This sounds like a political dismissal of an inconvenient tool. Can this be just temporary? Like YouTube being "rehabilitated" after those local elections?

gkhnarik 12y ago

I disagree with your last sentence. Because of the problem in Syria our borders are not secure and Turkey is trying to solve this problem diplomatically for a year. Recently ISID threatened Turkey to attack Sulaiman Sah and after that government started to think about a military attack to that area. You can't just say "they want to attack Syria to strength Erdogan's position."

hocaoglv 12y ago
Actually I didn't say they wanted to attack, the Turkish government wants "Syria to attack" in order to justify a potential war.
gkhnarik 12y ago
@hocaoglv Sorry I misunderstood this part. This tape really annoyed me.
higherpurpose 12y ago
This implies that they do: http://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/21i3u1/turkish_foreign_minister_head_of_the_national/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/21i3u1/turkish_forei...

cryoshon 12y ago

It's pretty ghastly that people are willing to fabricate rationale for getting into war. I really hope that the Turks dispose of their leaders expediently and forcefully.

toyg 12y ago
Yeah, like US and UK populations voted out their chief warmongers pronto, once it came out that the rationale for getting into the Iraq war was fabricated... oh wait
- oblio 12y ago
  Also Kosovo :)
- MWil 12y ago
  just morbidly curious but what's the date that came out?
  - toyg 12y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier By late 2003 it was already clear.
  - whiskeychaser 12y ago
    when we never found any WMD...so ongoing I guess.
- jann 12y ago
  I'm very sorry but I really don't like that argument. That doesn't make it any less ghastly for others to be like that as well. The argument you bring seems similar to what people say about the Crimea-Crisis (that 'the west' isn't allowed to complain because of Bosnia). Just because 'the west' interfered illegally in Bosnia, doesn't give Russia a free pass to do so as well.

narag 12y ago

Is there any information about when the recordings were made? I ask because, well, after weeks knowing that their conversations were being intercepted, it would be utterly stupid to still discuss sensitive matters on the phone. If on the contrary, they're old recordings, this seems like a strategy by the spies to slowly release damning evidence. Nice.

toyg 12y ago
99% of political activity runs over phone lines. Not using phones would basically shut down the whole government and parliament, throwing a country back to the XIX century, it just can't be done. What you can do is to change phones and to loudly complain with your counter-espionage and police arms that this stuff shouldn't happen. Except Erdogan has lost most of those constituencies already, which is why these leaks are happening in the first place.

yread 12y ago

Maybe they already started following the plan: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/turkey-shoots-down-syrian-plane http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/turkey-shoots-d...

cinquemb 12y ago
Makes you wonder, if everything had gone to the original plan in syria already, nat gas pipelines would be headed to europe by now and the IMF wouldn't bother with the gazprom bill to russia… Also interesting how there has been very little action about the blackouts from the State Dept talking heads (beyond the toothless shaming), if this had been a country not doing the bidding of tptb we would probably hear of sanctions against turkish corps in the us.
- bayesianhorse 12y ago
  Are you suggesting that a "western conspiracy" was responsible for the turmoil in Syria? That their people did not have serious grievances with a regime that tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people for political reasons even before the current conflict started?
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    >Are you suggesting that a "western conspiracy" was responsible for the turmoil in Syria? Who are you quoting? And is "conspiracy" just a pejorative word for 'intervention' or 'decision?' >That their people did not have serious grievances with a regime that tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people for political reasons even before the current conflict started? Are you suggesting that your first statement and your second statement are equivalent? That people did have serious grievances before the current conflict would lead me to ask 'why now?'
  - cinquemb 12y ago
    Not necessarily (because the conflict is not black and white), just that "the west" (if you include Qatar, Saudi Arabia[0], Israel, etc…) and "the east" all have interests in the region and have manipulated the conflict on multiple levels regardless of environment before Syria went "hot". Just like everywhere else in the world where someone is trying to make a buck… Some of those interests have been well stated by the CFR[1] and RAND years… Besides, "the west" didn't step into Iraq until the beginning of the 90's (and even then didn't dispose him until the 00's) while Saddam who was being bankrolled by the west was doing their bidding as well as torturing and murdering tens of thousands of people in the 80's… and even now, thousands more continue to die in northern Iraq and I don't hear people parroting that around, so lets not try to evoke the knee jerk emotions and remember all "sides" have blood on their hands in pursuit of their self interests… [0] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-syria-crisis-saudi-insight-idUSBRE94U0ZV20130531 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/31/us-syria-crisis-sa... [1] http://www.cfr.org/qatar/tiny-qatars-big-plans-may-change-mideast/p26143 http://www.cfr.org/qatar/tiny-qatars-big-plans-may-change-mi...

shna 12y ago

No where in that recording mention about strengthening Erdogan's position before local elections. On the contrary they mention that Erdogan actually not acting on it all, one of the voice proposes that Head of Turkish Army and couple of other officials should get together while PM present and clarify on how to help rebel groups.