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What is the strategy for when Apple disallows sales based on the Magsafe adapter? This happened to HyperMac (now HyperJuice) batteries back in 2011. I still ha

by _jss 12y ago

What is the strategy for when Apple disallows sales based on the Magsafe adapter? This happened to HyperMac (now HyperJuice) batteries back in 2011. I still have mine, ordered before Apple lawyers went after them. It's wonderful. Edit: Adding link to Wired article: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/01/hypermac-is-back-with-cable-chopping-magic-magsafe-adapter/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/01/hypermac-is-back-with...

MiguelHudnandez 12y ago
I have some HyperJuice units that I made cables for. It works OK, but is definitely clunky. I think it could be done in a better way, but it can only be a hack with Apple defending the walls of their garden so militantly. For this reason I really hope GBatteries have a license to use the connector, and that they build in some cable management similar to what's on the magsafe unit, so the cable can be coiled neatly. My other feedback is that having a built-in AC adapter would be so very useful. Look at the HyperJuice plug [1]. It's got the AC prongs that just slide out -- no separate wall wart, and no micro-usb cable. People that have only Apple devices won't have many micro USB cables around. It would also prevent someone from plugging the USB cable into their laptop while it's being powered by the external battery. :\ 1: http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ (note that this model HyperJuice will not charge a laptop)
toyg 12y ago
I think that it's not about the BatteryBox product per se, but about some technology inside which is supposed to reduce long-term capacity loss. The box itself is basically a demo to sell or license the actual tech to OEMs.
- XorNot 12y ago
  This is straight up not possible. Lithium-ion batteries degrade irreversibly as they're used - the only way to reduce capacity loss is to reduce the depth-of-discharge: add more cells, and discharge them less per cycle. Unless they're fiddling with the actual chemistry of the cells, it's unlikely they've changed anything.
  - jonknee 12y ago
    Did you read the linked article? > Batteries are typically charged and discharged through a constant stream of power, which causes problems like SEI layer formation that causes the battery to degrade over time. The BatteryOS system, by contrast, takes an active role in managing what’s happening inside a Li-ion battery, which not only lengthens the life of the battery, but also gives it the ability to store 10 percent to 40 percent more power. Obviously the proof is in the results, but that's what they're claiming.
    - dublinben 12y ago
      Active power management is nothing new to lithium ion batteries.
      - kirk21 12y ago
        You're right, see for example http://www.qnovocorp.com/ http://www.qnovocorp.com/ Guess execution is king ;)
        tylerlh 12y ago
        "Guess execution is king ;)" Always has been, always will be.
        gridspy 12y ago
        I found this useful paper from qnovo that describes the charging process they use. It's very interesting. http://www.qnovocorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Qnovo-Intro-Adaptive-Charging.pdf http://www.qnovocorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Qnovo-In...
        sirkneeland 12y ago
        if execution is king, then marketing is a dark prince at least!
  - josh-wrale 12y ago
    There is a distinct difference between reversing capacity loss and reducing it. Reduction is very possibly a pro-active stance, where reversal is by nature passive. In this case, what seems to be claimed is a pro-active method of reducing future loss of capacity. There is certainly a lot of precedent for this without my going into analogies. See the intelligent battery handling on the Tesla Model S. Sure there are many cells there, but I'm thinking there are more cells in this battery box than there is in your 6 or 9-cell laptop. Perhaps not, though. :-)
crystaln 12y ago
Did you read or think about the comment you are responding to? It's a battery technology company. This is their first product.
- flyosity 12y ago
  I don't understand the need for snark. It's a valid point. The main selling-point of their first product is that it can power MacBooks but if Apple cracks down on them for using the MagSafe adapter then this product will no longer be useful for its intended purposes.
- DigitalJack 12y ago
  And the selling point of their first product is a non starter, unless apple changed their MagSafe policies.
pbreit 12y ago
From the pictures, it looks like the strategy is to use a MagSafe-to-MagSafe2 adapter.
tluyben2 12y ago
Yep; I have the hypermac as well; it is very great. I buy new ones all the time. The magsafe thing is a bit (not much) of a hassle though. Curious as well how that will be handled.
runako 12y ago
Likely they will continue building the product described on their website: "A battery management system (BMS) that increases battery capacity and cycle count" I'm sure they can apply this to devices other than the 12% of laptops sold that are made by Apple.
pg 12y ago
I don't remember the details, but IIRC they are Apple proof.
- mcmillion 12y ago
  I have a feeling that if it can connect to a MagSafe port and work, Apple has control over it.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - roc 12y ago
    The claimed performance would provide a huge competitive advantage. If it worked as advertised and Apple had control over it, they'd integrate the software into their products and this box would never see the light of day as a third party product.
    - esmi 12y ago
      Apparently Apple already has it. Read the section titled "your new notebook" http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
      - roc 12y ago
        They have something like it. As do almost all makers of modern battery-powered electronics. But no-one else is claiming essentially no loss of capacity after 3000 cycles. Apple boasts 80% of original capacity after 1000 cycles. Which was industry leading, at least at the time of introduction. But a long way off GBatteries' claim. And better batteries would further buoy resale price of Apple gear, which buoys their premium pricing for new goods. If they could have this, they would want it. Badly. It would also perfectly fit their MO for acquisitions: an engineering/technology acquisition that provides a competitive advantage to their core business.
- enraged_camel 12y ago

by _jss 12y ago

MiguelHudnandez 12y ago

I have some HyperJuice units that I made cables for. It works OK, but is definitely clunky. I think it could be done in a better way, but it can only be a hack with Apple defending the walls of their garden so militantly. For this reason I really hope GBatteries have a license to use the connector, and that they build in some cable management similar to what's on the magsafe unit, so the cable can be coiled neatly. My other feedback is that having a built-in AC adapter would be so very useful. Look at the HyperJuice plug [1]. It's got the AC prongs that just slide out -- no separate wall wart, and no micro-usb cable. People that have only Apple devices won't have many micro USB cables around. It would also prevent someone from plugging the USB cable into their laptop while it's being powered by the external battery. :\ 1: http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice/Plug/ (note that this model HyperJuice will not charge a laptop)

toyg 12y ago

I think that it's not about the BatteryBox product per se, but about some technology inside which is supposed to reduce long-term capacity loss. The box itself is basically a demo to sell or license the actual tech to OEMs.

XorNot 12y ago
This is straight up not possible. Lithium-ion batteries degrade irreversibly as they're used - the only way to reduce capacity loss is to reduce the depth-of-discharge: add more cells, and discharge them less per cycle. Unless they're fiddling with the actual chemistry of the cells, it's unlikely they've changed anything.
- jonknee 12y ago
  Did you read the linked article? > Batteries are typically charged and discharged through a constant stream of power, which causes problems like SEI layer formation that causes the battery to degrade over time. The BatteryOS system, by contrast, takes an active role in managing what’s happening inside a Li-ion battery, which not only lengthens the life of the battery, but also gives it the ability to store 10 percent to 40 percent more power. Obviously the proof is in the results, but that's what they're claiming.
  - dublinben 12y ago
    Active power management is nothing new to lithium ion batteries.
    - kirk21 12y ago
      You're right, see for example http://www.qnovocorp.com/ http://www.qnovocorp.com/ Guess execution is king ;)
      - tylerlh 12y ago
        "Guess execution is king ;)" Always has been, always will be.
      - gridspy 12y ago
        I found this useful paper from qnovo that describes the charging process they use. It's very interesting. http://www.qnovocorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Qnovo-Intro-Adaptive-Charging.pdf http://www.qnovocorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Qnovo-In...
      - sirkneeland 12y ago
        if execution is king, then marketing is a dark prince at least!
- josh-wrale 12y ago
  There is a distinct difference between reversing capacity loss and reducing it. Reduction is very possibly a pro-active stance, where reversal is by nature passive. In this case, what seems to be claimed is a pro-active method of reducing future loss of capacity. There is certainly a lot of precedent for this without my going into analogies. See the intelligent battery handling on the Tesla Model S. Sure there are many cells there, but I'm thinking there are more cells in this battery box than there is in your 6 or 9-cell laptop. Perhaps not, though. :-)

crystaln 12y ago

Did you read or think about the comment you are responding to? It's a battery technology company. This is their first product.

flyosity 12y ago
I don't understand the need for snark. It's a valid point. The main selling-point of their first product is that it can power MacBooks but if Apple cracks down on them for using the MagSafe adapter then this product will no longer be useful for its intended purposes.
DigitalJack 12y ago
And the selling point of their first product is a non starter, unless apple changed their MagSafe policies.

pbreit 12y ago

From the pictures, it looks like the strategy is to use a MagSafe-to-MagSafe2 adapter.

tluyben2 12y ago

Yep; I have the hypermac as well; it is very great. I buy new ones all the time. The magsafe thing is a bit (not much) of a hassle though. Curious as well how that will be handled.

runako 12y ago

Likely they will continue building the product described on their website: "A battery management system (BMS) that increases battery capacity and cycle count" I'm sure they can apply this to devices other than the 12% of laptops sold that are made by Apple.

pg 12y ago

I don't remember the details, but IIRC they are Apple proof.

mcmillion 12y ago
I have a feeling that if it can connect to a MagSafe port and work, Apple has control over it.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- roc 12y ago
  The claimed performance would provide a huge competitive advantage. If it worked as advertised and Apple had control over it, they'd integrate the software into their products and this box would never see the light of day as a third party product.
  - esmi 12y ago
    Apparently Apple already has it. Read the section titled "your new notebook" http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
    - roc 12y ago
      They have something like it. As do almost all makers of modern battery-powered electronics. But no-one else is claiming essentially no loss of capacity after 3000 cycles. Apple boasts 80% of original capacity after 1000 cycles. Which was industry leading, at least at the time of introduction. But a long way off GBatteries' claim. And better batteries would further buoy resale price of Apple gear, which buoys their premium pricing for new goods. If they could have this, they would want it. Badly. It would also perfectly fit their MO for acquisitions: an engineering/technology acquisition that provides a competitive advantage to their core business.
enraged_camel 12y ago