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The title should be "US Propaganda War [1] In Full Swing Over Ukraine" [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBeYg8KdtY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBeYg8Kdt

The title should be "US Propaganda War [1] In Full Swing Over Ukraine" [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBeYg8KdtY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBeYg8KdtY Reason why the US has funded fascist 'protestors' in Ukraine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFpKwEm43n0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFpKwEm43n0 This is no different than the 'uprisings' in Libya [2], Syria[3], and the current ones in Venezuela [4]. These 'revolutions' are all part of a larger energy struggle ( of which the oppressed peoples of each respective country will not see a single cent ) [2] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27760.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27760.htm [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA%E2%80%93al-Qaeda_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA%E2%80%93al-Qaeda_controvers... [4] https://twitter.com/Jimmy_Olano/status/441742382719959040/photo/1 https://twitter.com/Jimmy_Olano/status/441742382719959040/ph... [4] http://www.popularresistance.org/is-us-supporting-oligarch-coup-attempt-in-venezuela/ http://www.popularresistance.org/is-us-supporting-oligarch-c...

nolok 13y ago
That there is foreign interference and influence in those protests is a given (and from everywhere, not only the US), but I really dislike when people reduce those protests to only that. That's like saying the US independence war was only a power struggle between France and the UK, it's true that it was that in part, and it's true that without France's support the US wouldn't have won, but it was much more than only a conflict between the two European countries. And it's the same with all those revolts that you clump up together as if it's only the US/West wish and doing. I realize the US example is not perfectly the same, but you get the gist of what I'm saying. And I also realize you didn't explicitly say it was "only" US/west actions, but the way you phrased your post didn't leave much ambiguity on what you meant.
- thisiswrong 13y ago
  > That's like saying the US independence war was only a power struggle between France and the UK It's not at all the same. Your example is from the ages of monarchies fighting each other through open warfare for control of land, trade routes, and slaves. Now we live in the ages of obscure plutocrats playing a tug of war to control lucrative energy markets using discrete paramilitary tactics (CIA activities) and tight media control (MSM fear-mongering, sock puppets, 'grass-root' campains...) to rally the masses behind them.
codesuela 13y ago
Was just about to post this. These are your "peaceful" pro western "unity" activists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) Being German it is especially disgusting how the German government is supporting the far right nationalists who have close ties to the German NPD (the facist party of Germany). A few highlights from their stances: * Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”[51] * Criminalization of public promotion of abortions or calls for abortions (by introducing a fine for doing so)[96] * The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates[40][51] * Proportional representation on executive bodies of ethnic Ukrainians, on the one hand, and national minorities, on the other[40][51][98] * Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry[2] Also > On 23 February 2014, following the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the law on regional languages was abolished, making Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels.[102] and > In 2004, party leader Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a "Muscovite-Jewish mafia."[32][40] Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a "‘Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre" in 2005, later changing "Joseph Goebbels" to "Ernst Jünger."[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Goebbels.[40][87][107] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a "period of Light in history".[108] anyway I guess I must be part of the Russian Propaganda machine for quoting from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) Also I wanted to add I'm not pro Russia either. If you wrongfully assumed that you should check your own ideology because you don't have to take up one of two sides. Personally I consider this a loose loose for Ukraine which is a shame.
- pulmo 13y ago
  I believe western politicians don't really care about facism at this point as long it is pro-western instead of pro-russian facism. And from a geopolitical point of view that might be the right thing to do in the current situation.
trycatch 13y ago
Protesters are not "fascist", that's a blatant exaggeration by Russian propaganda. See "Open letter of Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin" signed by two chief Rabbis of Ukraine and by the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine [1], and statement by All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress [2]. > They have tried to scare us (and are continuing their attempts) with “Bandera followers” and “Fascists” attempting to wrest away the helm of Ukrainian society, with imminent Jewish progroms. Yes, we are well aware that the political opposition and the forces of social protests who have secured changes for the better are made up of different groups. They include nationalistic groups, but even the most marginal do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services. There are much more similar articles about it by the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine [3], by The Congress of national minorities of Ukraine, by Crimean Tatar Mejlis. None of minorities that actually live on Ukraine see a big problem in Svoboda and Pravy Sektor, the side that cry about is Kremlin. [1] http://eajc.org/page32/news43672.html http://eajc.org/page32/news43672.html [2] http://www.interpretermag.com/all-ukrainian-jewish-congress-antisemitism-not-on-the-rise/ http://www.interpretermag.com/all-ukrainian-jewish-congress-... [3] http://vaadua.org/rubrika/vaads-news-english http://vaadua.org/rubrika/vaads-news-english
- codesuela 13y ago
  > None of minorities that actually live on Ukraine see a big problem in Svoboda and Pravy Sektor, the side that cry about is Kremlin. how about being careful with absolute statements. Pretty sure the largest Ukrainian minority, the ethnic Russians are pretty worried. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine Also nice that you mention the Pravy Sektor. Check out their vKontakte page: http://vk.com/album-62043361_00 http://vk.com/album-62043361_00. Nothing to be worried about I guess.
  - trycatch 13y ago
    Russians were widely represented on Maidan. According to the poll from February, 16% of Maidan spoke Russian at home. [1] There are so much fuss about "fascist" Ukrainians, but surprisingly zero information any discrimination against Russians. So, nope. What about Pravyj Sektor -- you really can't find something more important to worry except their flag? For example, worry about ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea? Ukrainian channels were closed there, Ukrainian language will not be protected anymore in Russia, Ukrainian people are abused, beaten, kidnapped by Russians. That very real discrimination doesn't worry you comparing to hypothetical discrimination of Russians in Ukraine? [1] http://www.dif.org.ua/ua/polls/2014_polls/vid-maidanu-taboru-do-maidan.htm http://www.dif.org.ua/ua/polls/2014_polls/vid-maidanu-taboru...
jokoon 13y ago
infowars at it again... I can't entirely disagree that all of this stems from energy interests, and that americans are awfully good at political PR, but that doesn't justify what Putin is doing either.
- acqq 13y ago
  What do you think Putin is actually doing? Are you aware that the Russian troops are there during the last 200 years and now regulated by the agreements signed in 1997 (the link is form the German international news agency): http://www.dw.de/bound-by-treaty-russia-ukraine-and-crimea/a-17487632 http://www.dw.de/bound-by-treaty-russia-ukraine-and-crimea/a... "Under the agreements, Russia was permitted to station a maximum of 25,000 troops, 132 armored combat vehicles and 24 pieces of artillery at its military facilities in Crimea." Are you also aware that the Russians are a big part of population in Ukraine and their language appears being dropped as an official language since a few days? Don't you think that Russians in Ukraine would like to keep using their own language? Don't you think they are supposed to have human rights and that they would actually like to minimize influence of the new government on them?
arcadeparade 13y ago
>Examining examples of preventative war waged by the United States, he notes that all of the nations that have been attacked have shared the same three characteristics: 1) they are "virtually defenseless", 2) they are "important enough to be worth the trouble" and 3) there has been a way to portray them as "the ultimate evil and an imminent threat to our survival."[27] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony_or_Survival#U.S._Imperial_Grand_Strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony_or_Survival#U.S._Imper... Russia, along with China, are the only two countries with the potential to oppose the United States. It looks like Ukraine is been used by the to continue the attempted destabilisation of Russia. Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the current president of Ukraine, has a foundation with some very interesting partners: http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners
- herokusaki 13y ago
  Arseniy Yatsenyuk is not the acting president of Ukraine.

nolok 13y ago

That there is foreign interference and influence in those protests is a given (and from everywhere, not only the US), but I really dislike when people reduce those protests to only that. That's like saying the US independence war was only a power struggle between France and the UK, it's true that it was that in part, and it's true that without France's support the US wouldn't have won, but it was much more than only a conflict between the two European countries. And it's the same with all those revolts that you clump up together as if it's only the US/West wish and doing. I realize the US example is not perfectly the same, but you get the gist of what I'm saying. And I also realize you didn't explicitly say it was "only" US/west actions, but the way you phrased your post didn't leave much ambiguity on what you meant.

thisiswrong 13y ago
> That's like saying the US independence war was only a power struggle between France and the UK It's not at all the same. Your example is from the ages of monarchies fighting each other through open warfare for control of land, trade routes, and slaves. Now we live in the ages of obscure plutocrats playing a tug of war to control lucrative energy markets using discrete paramilitary tactics (CIA activities) and tight media control (MSM fear-mongering, sock puppets, 'grass-root' campains...) to rally the masses behind them.

codesuela 13y ago

Was just about to post this. These are your "peaceful" pro western "unity" activists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) Being German it is especially disgusting how the German government is supporting the far right nationalists who have close ties to the German NPD (the facist party of Germany). A few highlights from their stances: * Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”[51] * Criminalization of public promotion of abortions or calls for abortions (by introducing a fine for doing so)[96] * The restoration of the Soviet practice of indicating ethnic origin on passports and birth certificates[40][51] * Proportional representation on executive bodies of ethnic Ukrainians, on the one hand, and national minorities, on the other[40][51][98] * Ukraine should again re-acquire tactical nuclear weaponry[2] Also > On 23 February 2014, following the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the law on regional languages was abolished, making Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels.[102] and > In 2004, party leader Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction for a speech calling for Ukrainians to fight against a "Muscovite-Jewish mafia."[32][40] Svoboda advisor Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn established a "‘Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre" in 2005, later changing "Joseph Goebbels" to "Ernst Jünger."[2] Mykhalchyshyn wrote a book in 2010 citing works by Nazi theorists Ernst Röhm, Gregor Strasser and Goebbels.[40][87][107] Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a "period of Light in history".[108] anyway I guess I must be part of the Russian Propaganda machine for quoting from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) Also I wanted to add I'm not pro Russia either. If you wrongfully assumed that you should check your own ideology because you don't have to take up one of two sides. Personally I consider this a loose loose for Ukraine which is a shame.

pulmo 13y ago
I believe western politicians don't really care about facism at this point as long it is pro-western instead of pro-russian facism. And from a geopolitical point of view that might be the right thing to do in the current situation.

trycatch 13y ago

Protesters are not "fascist", that's a blatant exaggeration by Russian propaganda. See "Open letter of Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin" signed by two chief Rabbis of Ukraine and by the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine [1], and statement by All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress [2]. > They have tried to scare us (and are continuing their attempts) with “Bandera followers” and “Fascists” attempting to wrest away the helm of Ukrainian society, with imminent Jewish progroms. Yes, we are well aware that the political opposition and the forces of social protests who have secured changes for the better are made up of different groups. They include nationalistic groups, but even the most marginal do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services. There are much more similar articles about it by the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine [3], by The Congress of national minorities of Ukraine, by Crimean Tatar Mejlis. None of minorities that actually live on Ukraine see a big problem in Svoboda and Pravy Sektor, the side that cry about is Kremlin. [1] http://eajc.org/page32/news43672.html http://eajc.org/page32/news43672.html [2] http://www.interpretermag.com/all-ukrainian-jewish-congress-antisemitism-not-on-the-rise/ http://www.interpretermag.com/all-ukrainian-jewish-congress-... [3] http://vaadua.org/rubrika/vaads-news-english http://vaadua.org/rubrika/vaads-news-english

codesuela 13y ago
> None of minorities that actually live on Ukraine see a big problem in Svoboda and Pravy Sektor, the side that cry about is Kremlin. how about being careful with absolute statements. Pretty sure the largest Ukrainian minority, the ethnic Russians are pretty worried. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine Also nice that you mention the Pravy Sektor. Check out their vKontakte page: http://vk.com/album-62043361_00 http://vk.com/album-62043361_00. Nothing to be worried about I guess.
- trycatch 13y ago
  Russians were widely represented on Maidan. According to the poll from February, 16% of Maidan spoke Russian at home. [1] There are so much fuss about "fascist" Ukrainians, but surprisingly zero information any discrimination against Russians. So, nope. What about Pravyj Sektor -- you really can't find something more important to worry except their flag? For example, worry about ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea? Ukrainian channels were closed there, Ukrainian language will not be protected anymore in Russia, Ukrainian people are abused, beaten, kidnapped by Russians. That very real discrimination doesn't worry you comparing to hypothetical discrimination of Russians in Ukraine? [1] http://www.dif.org.ua/ua/polls/2014_polls/vid-maidanu-taboru-do-maidan.htm http://www.dif.org.ua/ua/polls/2014_polls/vid-maidanu-taboru...

jokoon 13y ago

infowars at it again... I can't entirely disagree that all of this stems from energy interests, and that americans are awfully good at political PR, but that doesn't justify what Putin is doing either.

acqq 13y ago
What do you think Putin is actually doing? Are you aware that the Russian troops are there during the last 200 years and now regulated by the agreements signed in 1997 (the link is form the German international news agency): http://www.dw.de/bound-by-treaty-russia-ukraine-and-crimea/a-17487632 http://www.dw.de/bound-by-treaty-russia-ukraine-and-crimea/a... "Under the agreements, Russia was permitted to station a maximum of 25,000 troops, 132 armored combat vehicles and 24 pieces of artillery at its military facilities in Crimea." Are you also aware that the Russians are a big part of population in Ukraine and their language appears being dropped as an official language since a few days? Don't you think that Russians in Ukraine would like to keep using their own language? Don't you think they are supposed to have human rights and that they would actually like to minimize influence of the new government on them?

arcadeparade 13y ago

>Examining examples of preventative war waged by the United States, he notes that all of the nations that have been attacked have shared the same three characteristics: 1) they are "virtually defenseless", 2) they are "important enough to be worth the trouble" and 3) there has been a way to portray them as "the ultimate evil and an imminent threat to our survival."[27] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony_or_Survival#U.S._Imperial_Grand_Strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony_or_Survival#U.S._Imper... Russia, along with China, are the only two countries with the potential to oppose the United States. It looks like Ukraine is been used by the to continue the attempted destabilisation of Russia. Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the current president of Ukraine, has a foundation with some very interesting partners: http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners

herokusaki 13y ago
Arseniy Yatsenyuk is not the acting president of Ukraine.