10 ms·

“A call center has been established to respond to all inquiries”

67 points by Le_SDT 13y ago

perlgeek 13y ago
Why don't they answer the most-asked questions ("will I get my money/bitcoins back?" / "how much of my money/bitcoins will I get back, and when?") up-front on the homepage?
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  They probably don't know the answer or can't legally tell you. I wouldn't be surprised if most answers the call center gives are "Sorry, we don't know/can't tell you".
  - perthguppy 13y ago
    If japan is anything like other countries, there will likely be a date set for a creditors meeting, and the call center will simply be instructing people to attend the creditors meeting to have their questions answered.
- Mchl 13y ago
  Possibly this (opening an infoline) is something required by Japanese law for every company filing for bankruptcy. Just guessing though.
- otoburb 13y ago
  Another one to anticipate in the FAQ: "will MtGox provide last known balances in fiat and BTC and account transaction histories?" Presuming that .csv files and screenshots would constitute proof of claims in a court of law is unbelievable.
- kartikkumar 13y ago
  Most logical answer is because they don't know. By delaying statement, they're probably hoping to buy enough time so that they can actually answer those questions.
- perthguppy 13y ago
  Anyone who has money (either fiat or btc) in mtgox is essentially now an unsecured creditor and mtgox seems to be in bankruptcy protection / proceedings. You wouldnt get answers out of any other company in bankruptcy or insolvency, everyone will just have to patient until the Investigators/Administrators have finished their audits and have a restructure plan in place.
gkoberger 13y ago
Also interesting is that Mark Karpeles signed it "Representative Director" rather than "CEO". Maybe that's a legal thing (since they're under bankruptcy protection), or maybe he stepped down?
- jmgao 13y ago
  It's the Japanese equivalent of CEO.
  - arsemouflon 13y ago
    That's sooooo un-american of them!
shocks 13y ago
Can anyone explain what is going on here[1]? 1: http://pastebin.com/rmtUxwbu http://pastebin.com/rmtUxwbu
- nly 13y ago
  so basically a lot of people may end up with a lot of worthless stock instead of a poor cash return on what they're owed?
  - mschuster91 13y ago
    The point is that after going through all the bankruptcy process, they most likely will have all their code audited and checked, as well as external entities for monitoring. MtGox will be one of the best secured exchanges after it, that's for sure - I don't count on MtGox going down at all.
    - mbreese 13y ago
      Except that exchanges need trust. Customers need to be able to trust that their money will be safe, that they can move their funds in and out freely, and that the exchange wont just take their money and run. This is especially true with an unregulated currency, like Bitcoin. Do you really think that anyone will trust them going forward? If they can manage to get their business back in order, do you think that customers will go back to them as opposed to one of the other exchanges that now exist? Plus, I was under the impression that one of the major reasons why US-based people still had accounts on MtGox was that it was so difficult to get USD out. It's not like they were winning customers before. A great deal of them were just locked in and couldn't leave.
      - 7952 13y ago
        Surely trust is an insurance issue rather than a technical one? However secure an organisation may seem on the outside things can always go wrong.
      - CamperBob2 13y ago
einhverfr 13y ago
Interesting that the call center has been established to respond to all inquiries, as long as you don't ask for information.
panacea 13y ago
Hello? Is it me you're looking for...
socillion 13y ago
Here are some links on Japanese bankruptcy processes taken from IRC discussion. http://www.jurists.co.jp/en/topics/others_4007.html http://www.jurists.co.jp/en/topics/others_4007.html http://japantax.org/?p=84 http://japantax.org/?p=84 My understanding is that Mtgox is using Minji Saisei.
- patio11 13y ago
  That understanding is confirmed by, among other places, the subject of the page: [民事再生手続開始の申立てに関するお知らせ].
leoc 13y ago
Not a job I would relish having.
asogi 13y ago
Does anyone know why they're using Javascript to load such a simple page?
- dangrossman 13y ago
  3rd-party DDOS protection.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
drakaal 13y ago
Answers to questions they won't answer: Will you get your Bitcoins back? Most of the time when a company has "unfulfilled orders" as they enter bankruptcy what happens is that what ever is left is divvied up. A company rarely has Zero Assets. In the case of MT. Gox they likely have about $4M in assets that will be sold to cover those who are owed something. Depending on who you ask that could be a few billion to a few hundred million. So let's make the napkin math easy and say they owe $500 Million and they have $5M in assets, every bitcoin you had would be paid at a penny on the dollar. Will anyone go to jail? Most likely not. Mt. Gox claims they were wronged, not that they stole your money. If that is true, or a bug caused them to lose your money it would be the same as if a bank was robbed prior to FDIC insurance (if they were robbed) or if the bank just invested poorly. They didn't do anything criminal. They were just stupid. Prior to FDIC putting your money in a bank meant if the bank failed your money was gone. (FDIC insures you up to $100k in a bank, but does nothing for Cryptocurrency). If Mt. Gox was a Ponzi scheme that would change this answer, but I don't hear people saying that. What should you do if you want to get your money back? Make sure that you are named at the bankruptcy hearing. Yes, that may mean going to Japan. If you lost $100k or more it may be worth going. There will be tiers of payback, and those who were most injured will get the most back. Someone who lost $29 is likely going to get nothing, ever. But if you lost $1m you may be able to get 10% of that back. If you lost more than $100k you may want to sue Karpeles out side of bankruptcy. While the Bankruptcy protects him from being sued for losses, it doesn't fully protect against negligence. He has personal assets. You need to talk to a lawyer about this, as the rules are complex, and your losses would have to be near catastrophic, because this would be a punitive reward, not something based on debt. Can you sue the VC's? Only if you think you can prove that they knew Mt. Gox was doing something illegal, that the public didn't know. Bankrolling Silk Road wouldn't count for example.
- sarah2079 13y ago
  The FDIC limit is now $250k. It was originally raised as a temporary measure in fall 2008, but the higher limit has now been made permanent.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
guybrushT 13y ago
Completely tangential - but does anyone know how to setup a call center this quickly? Is there a service that one can use?
- pbreit 13y ago
  The "virtual PBX" market is pretty crowded. Grasshopper is a good introductory service. There are some Skype/Gvoice-based options like Zaplee and PrettyMay. Moving up a bit you'd find RingCentral and Phonebooth which are a bit more capable.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    Also, there are turnkey call centers, fully staffed. You get a number that gets routed to certain agents, and they answer as your org, have your flowchart/website/whatever. You're typically charged a setup fee, monthly fee, and per minute, but you don't have to go hire your own people.

67 points by Le_SDT 13y ago

Why don't they answer the most-asked questions ("will I get my money/bitcoins back?" / "how much of my money/bitcoins will I get back, and when?") up-front on the homepage?

k-mcgrady 13y ago
They probably don't know the answer or can't legally tell you. I wouldn't be surprised if most answers the call center gives are "Sorry, we don't know/can't tell you".
- perthguppy 13y ago
  If japan is anything like other countries, there will likely be a date set for a creditors meeting, and the call center will simply be instructing people to attend the creditors meeting to have their questions answered.
Mchl 13y ago
Possibly this (opening an infoline) is something required by Japanese law for every company filing for bankruptcy. Just guessing though.
otoburb 13y ago
Another one to anticipate in the FAQ: "will MtGox provide last known balances in fiat and BTC and account transaction histories?" Presuming that .csv files and screenshots would constitute proof of claims in a court of law is unbelievable.
kartikkumar 13y ago
Most logical answer is because they don't know. By delaying statement, they're probably hoping to buy enough time so that they can actually answer those questions.
perthguppy 13y ago
Anyone who has money (either fiat or btc) in mtgox is essentially now an unsecured creditor and mtgox seems to be in bankruptcy protection / proceedings. You wouldnt get answers out of any other company in bankruptcy or insolvency, everyone will just have to patient until the Investigators/Administrators have finished their audits and have a restructure plan in place.

gkoberger 13y ago

Also interesting is that Mark Karpeles signed it "Representative Director" rather than "CEO". Maybe that's a legal thing (since they're under bankruptcy protection), or maybe he stepped down?

jmgao 13y ago
It's the Japanese equivalent of CEO.
- arsemouflon 13y ago
  That's sooooo un-american of them!

shocks 13y ago

Can anyone explain what is going on here[1]? 1: http://pastebin.com/rmtUxwbu http://pastebin.com/rmtUxwbu

nly 13y ago
so basically a lot of people may end up with a lot of worthless stock instead of a poor cash return on what they're owed?
- mschuster91 13y ago
  The point is that after going through all the bankruptcy process, they most likely will have all their code audited and checked, as well as external entities for monitoring. MtGox will be one of the best secured exchanges after it, that's for sure - I don't count on MtGox going down at all.
  - mbreese 13y ago
    Except that exchanges need trust. Customers need to be able to trust that their money will be safe, that they can move their funds in and out freely, and that the exchange wont just take their money and run. This is especially true with an unregulated currency, like Bitcoin. Do you really think that anyone will trust them going forward? If they can manage to get their business back in order, do you think that customers will go back to them as opposed to one of the other exchanges that now exist? Plus, I was under the impression that one of the major reasons why US-based people still had accounts on MtGox was that it was so difficult to get USD out. It's not like they were winning customers before. A great deal of them were just locked in and couldn't leave.
    - 7952 13y ago
      Surely trust is an insurance issue rather than a technical one? However secure an organisation may seem on the outside things can always go wrong.
    - CamperBob2 13y ago

einhverfr 13y ago

Interesting that the call center has been established to respond to all inquiries, as long as you don't ask for information.

panacea 13y ago

Hello? Is it me you're looking for...

socillion 13y ago

Here are some links on Japanese bankruptcy processes taken from IRC discussion. http://www.jurists.co.jp/en/topics/others_4007.html http://www.jurists.co.jp/en/topics/others_4007.html http://japantax.org/?p=84 http://japantax.org/?p=84 My understanding is that Mtgox is using Minji Saisei.

patio11 13y ago
That understanding is confirmed by, among other places, the subject of the page: [民事再生手続開始の申立てに関するお知らせ].

leoc 13y ago

Not a job I would relish having.

asogi 13y ago

Does anyone know why they're using Javascript to load such a simple page?

dangrossman 13y ago
3rd-party DDOS protection.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

drakaal 13y ago

Answers to questions they won't answer: Will you get your Bitcoins back? Most of the time when a company has "unfulfilled orders" as they enter bankruptcy what happens is that what ever is left is divvied up. A company rarely has Zero Assets. In the case of MT. Gox they likely have about $4M in assets that will be sold to cover those who are owed something. Depending on who you ask that could be a few billion to a few hundred million. So let's make the napkin math easy and say they owe $500 Million and they have $5M in assets, every bitcoin you had would be paid at a penny on the dollar. Will anyone go to jail? Most likely not. Mt. Gox claims they were wronged, not that they stole your money. If that is true, or a bug caused them to lose your money it would be the same as if a bank was robbed prior to FDIC insurance (if they were robbed) or if the bank just invested poorly. They didn't do anything criminal. They were just stupid. Prior to FDIC putting your money in a bank meant if the bank failed your money was gone. (FDIC insures you up to $100k in a bank, but does nothing for Cryptocurrency). If Mt. Gox was a Ponzi scheme that would change this answer, but I don't hear people saying that. What should you do if you want to get your money back? Make sure that you are named at the bankruptcy hearing. Yes, that may mean going to Japan. If you lost $100k or more it may be worth going. There will be tiers of payback, and those who were most injured will get the most back. Someone who lost $29 is likely going to get nothing, ever. But if you lost $1m you may be able to get 10% of that back. If you lost more than $100k you may want to sue Karpeles out side of bankruptcy. While the Bankruptcy protects him from being sued for losses, it doesn't fully protect against negligence. He has personal assets. You need to talk to a lawyer about this, as the rules are complex, and your losses would have to be near catastrophic, because this would be a punitive reward, not something based on debt. Can you sue the VC's? Only if you think you can prove that they knew Mt. Gox was doing something illegal, that the public didn't know. Bankrolling Silk Road wouldn't count for example.

sarah2079 13y ago
The FDIC limit is now $250k. It was originally raised as a temporary measure in fall 2008, but the higher limit has now been made permanent.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

guybrushT 13y ago

Completely tangential - but does anyone know how to setup a call center this quickly? Is there a service that one can use?

pbreit 13y ago
The "virtual PBX" market is pretty crowded. Grasshopper is a good introductory service. There are some Skype/Gvoice-based options like Zaplee and PrettyMay. Moving up a bit you'd find RingCentral and Phonebooth which are a bit more capable.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Also, there are turnkey call centers, fully staffed. You get a number that gets routed to certain agents, and they answer as your org, have your flowchart/website/whatever. You're typically charged a setup fee, monthly fee, and per minute, but you don't have to go hire your own people.