7 ms·

I don't get it. It seems reasonable to me that you should be able justify getting a raise, even if that justification is "I can get paid more elsewhere but I'd

by jeady 13y ago

I don't get it. It seems reasonable to me that you should be able justify getting a raise, even if that justification is "I can get paid more elsewhere but I'd prefer to get paid more here." You make it sound like "explain to me why I should give you a raise" is the same thing is "no."

digz 13y ago
Totally agree. All you need to say is I'm not being paid market.
- drdeadringer 13y ago
  It wouldn't hurt to also bring some of those "metrics" bosses and others seem to love. For example: "Here's how I made//saved you planets of sweaty money."
- click170 13y ago
  is that not exactly what he was doing by asking for a raise? Eg rarely does someone go to their boss with the thinking of "I'm not working any harder, nor am I taking on any additional work, but I'd like a pay rise anyway." Every time ive asked for a raise its because I thought I deserved more. if you (my employer) disagree then I am happy to hear your thoughts on how I can do better but asking "why" just seems like stalling, as if you wanted me to think you didn't understand the expressed sentiment in asking for a raise. To be honest this seems like passive aggressive management techniques to me, and I value honest straightforward employers who are proactive about employee happiness.
  - PeterisP 13y ago
    By the way, "I'm not working any harder, nor am I taking on any additional work, but I'd like a pay rise anyway" is a completely valid argument if you're not being paid the market rate. Has the market rate risen by 20% while you were here? A 20% raise for the same work is completely reasonable. Were you being paid below market because at the time the startup was just scraping by and couldn't afford it? When that's over, you'll need pay your people much more for the exact same effort&results.
    - taybin 13y ago
      And if the market rate lowers 20%?
      - maxbrown 13y ago
        Naturally a 20% salary reduction! Although occasionally this may be the case (pay cuts), it seems clear that the employer absorbs the risk of entering into contract with the employee at a certain time, with a certain market price. Interesting that the employee gets to partake in the upside but the employer gets the downside, with the exception of course of the employee getting fired. I wonder - if there were really a way to gauge the current market for X talent (sort of a glassdoor salary index) - could employers purchase "insurance" or hedge their hiring price with "employee securities"?
      - PeterisP 13y ago
        In an inflationary environment, which is maintained pretty much all the time, it is much, much more common for market rate to raise rather than fall - i.e., frozen wages usually mean a loss for the employee. That being said - have you seen what happens in shrinking industries? Yes, there have been companies that renegotiate a 20% decrease in wages, and fire/replace those who don't agree; it's exactly symmetrical as growing demand professions where people either get their raises or leave and need to be replaced.
  - bcbrown 13y ago
    >Every time ive asked for a raise its because I thought I deserved more. I don't understand why someone asking for a raise wouldn't be prepared to explain why they deserve more. Either reminding one's manager about past successes, or information about current market value, if you think you deserve more, you should be able to articulate why.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    > Eg rarely does someone go to their boss with the thinking of "I'm not working any harder, nor am I taking on any additional work, but I'd like a pay rise anyway." Really? I bet that happens all the time.
ryguytilidie 13y ago
No, I really don't. As I said to another poster, either you guys simply had no time to read a few lines of text or you already had your mind made up before reading them. I simply think that a manager should be familiar enough with your contributions that they shouldn't need this information. If your boss is this unfamiliar with your contributions its pretty obvious they suck. I also think that a manager making you explain why you deserve a raise is fairly poor form. At this point we were already months past the point where i should have just gotten a raise without a conversation at all. If they had done that up front, I would not have been so quick to leave.

by jeady 13y ago

digz 13y ago

Totally agree. All you need to say is I'm not being paid market.

drdeadringer 13y ago
It wouldn't hurt to also bring some of those "metrics" bosses and others seem to love. For example: "Here's how I made//saved you planets of sweaty money."
click170 13y ago
is that not exactly what he was doing by asking for a raise? Eg rarely does someone go to their boss with the thinking of "I'm not working any harder, nor am I taking on any additional work, but I'd like a pay rise anyway." Every time ive asked for a raise its because I thought I deserved more. if you (my employer) disagree then I am happy to hear your thoughts on how I can do better but asking "why" just seems like stalling, as if you wanted me to think you didn't understand the expressed sentiment in asking for a raise. To be honest this seems like passive aggressive management techniques to me, and I value honest straightforward employers who are proactive about employee happiness.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  By the way, "I'm not working any harder, nor am I taking on any additional work, but I'd like a pay rise anyway" is a completely valid argument if you're not being paid the market rate. Has the market rate risen by 20% while you were here? A 20% raise for the same work is completely reasonable. Were you being paid below market because at the time the startup was just scraping by and couldn't afford it? When that's over, you'll need pay your people much more for the exact same effort&results.
  - taybin 13y ago
    And if the market rate lowers 20%?
    - maxbrown 13y ago
      Naturally a 20% salary reduction! Although occasionally this may be the case (pay cuts), it seems clear that the employer absorbs the risk of entering into contract with the employee at a certain time, with a certain market price. Interesting that the employee gets to partake in the upside but the employer gets the downside, with the exception of course of the employee getting fired. I wonder - if there were really a way to gauge the current market for X talent (sort of a glassdoor salary index) - could employers purchase "insurance" or hedge their hiring price with "employee securities"?
    - PeterisP 13y ago
      In an inflationary environment, which is maintained pretty much all the time, it is much, much more common for market rate to raise rather than fall - i.e., frozen wages usually mean a loss for the employee. That being said - have you seen what happens in shrinking industries? Yes, there have been companies that renegotiate a 20% decrease in wages, and fire/replace those who don't agree; it's exactly symmetrical as growing demand professions where people either get their raises or leave and need to be replaced.
- bcbrown 13y ago
  >Every time ive asked for a raise its because I thought I deserved more. I don't understand why someone asking for a raise wouldn't be prepared to explain why they deserve more. Either reminding one's manager about past successes, or information about current market value, if you think you deserve more, you should be able to articulate why.
- mikeash 13y ago
  > Eg rarely does someone go to their boss with the thinking of "I'm not working any harder, nor am I taking on any additional work, but I'd like a pay rise anyway." Really? I bet that happens all the time.

ryguytilidie 13y ago

No, I really don't. As I said to another poster, either you guys simply had no time to read a few lines of text or you already had your mind made up before reading them. I simply think that a manager should be familiar enough with your contributions that they shouldn't need this information. If your boss is this unfamiliar with your contributions its pretty obvious they suck. I also think that a manager making you explain why you deserve a raise is fairly poor form. At this point we were already months past the point where i should have just gotten a raise without a conversation at all. If they had done that up front, I would not have been so quick to leave.