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So an outreach program for women speakers can't address systematic discrimination -- you have to fix the conferences themselves for that. You can reach out to
by __pThrow 13y ago
So an outreach program for women speakers can't address systematic discrimination -- you have to fix the conferences themselves for that.
You can reach out to more women, and invite them to apply, but it is sexist discrimination to offer women only training in public speaking on the basis that a certain group of conferences is under-represented.
You would reach the same outcome, more qualified women speakers, if you offer that training to anyone who wants it.
Same outcome, but one approach is sexist, and one approach is inclusive of everyone.
What you are trying to do is guarantee an outcome. Some ratio of women speakers at conferences that satisfies your requirement. Approaches like that usually lead to sexism and discrimination.
A better approach is to a) ensure there is an ample supply of well qualified people for your conferences and then b) encourage conferences to perform better outreach to the kinds of speakers they are seeking. Approaches like that are non-sexist and inclusive.
As I said, github, an employer, should not be seen directly giving women, even non-employees, preferential treatment. If they want to donate to a women's group putting on such a workshop, that would be a different matter.
Edit to add: chc, we have run out of thread reply. What is HN etiquette on that?
I will say I disagree with your reply that somehow women are disadvantaged in public speaking. Having fewer women at conferences is not evidence of any disadvantage that merits a discrimination based remedy. And even if so, such a disadvantage! We're not talking job discrimination, income equality, firing policies, etc., we're talking about public speaking something that applies to very very few people across the IT world. A remedy to that does not require sexist discriminatory approaches.
- chc 13y agoNo, it is not sexist. Helping the disadvantaged does not constitute discrimination against the advantaged. By this odd logic, homeless shelters reek of elitism because they don't let people with homes there.
- eplumlee 13y agoYour statement begins with the presumption "Men discriminate against women." and flows from there. You and github begin counting, and see high representation in the tech industry by men, and low representation by women (and some minorities). This much is obvious. It's how you proceed from there, and naturally conclude "discrimination" is responsible for this discrepancy is not at all apparent to some of us. From my vantage point, the only exclusionary, discriminatory behaviors and attitudes in the tech industry are directed at men.
- sp332 13y agoThen you aren't looking. These views aren't some hypothetical thing that is derived from simple counting. They come from actual experiences of women, e.g. http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents
- saraid216 13y ago> Edit to add: chc, we have run out of thread reply. What is HN etiquette on that? FYI, this is not a thing. HN discourages immediate replies by hiding the reply button for a few minutes after the comment goes up. If you do want to reply immediately, you can click on "link" at the top of the comment, which will still provide you with the text box.
- __pThrow 13y agoThank you for the explanation, because the reply link wasn't there, and I said my say, AND THEN IT WAS THERE, and I felt kind of dumb. Or dumber than usual. So truly, thank you!