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>How ironic CA actually gives a crap about the air their citizens breathe, wait, no, that's not ironic at all. Believe me china is beginning to give a crap also

>How ironic CA actually gives a crap about the air their citizens breathe, wait, no, that's not ironic at all. Believe me china is beginning to give a crap also, in a major way. No one can live with sucky air, even the Chinese (and us expats who have to deal with crazy bad air quality...). Even if they do eventually start cleaning up their act (which I doubt) the price has already been paid. The world now has to bear far greater amounts of global pollution (not just in the air either) than it would have if politicians and activists in the US had just taken a more incremental (and less stifling) approach. Their blind and foolish over aggression in environmental policies resulted in worse consequences for the planet. That is plain to see now. Of course hind sight is 20/20, but there were plenty of people warning that this would happen so full blame is on the table IMO. Did you know that 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world. These are the ships that transport these goods and raw materials to and from China http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-16-ships-create-pollution-cars-world.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-1...

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Are you too young to know all the asthma kids that grew up in no and so cal in the 70s/80s? Pollution in California used to be bad, then the people got serious about it, and now California has clean air. Incremental my ass. I guess you would have settled for incrementally decreasing numbers of asthma kids? Pollution has gotten so bad in china that it is seriously threatening the CCP's continued existence. They will eventually get their balls just like California did, because it's a life and death kind of situation. After living with shit air for the last two+ years! I'm convinced pansy solutions won't work.
- goggles99 13y ago
  >Are you too young to know all the asthma kids that grew up in no and so cal in the 70s/80s? Pollution in California used to be bad, then the people got serious about it, and now California has clean air. Incremental my ass. I guess you would have settled for incrementally decreasing numbers of asthma kids? Because of the Laws that we made: OK kids the good news first... you don't have asthma. The bad news ... Millions of Chinese people through no fault of their own (but rather their government) are dead or dying and the planet is half dead too. Global climate change was accelerated significantly and will kill many of your great grandchildren and perhaps end the human race eventually... Feel better? Are you sure we really did the "Responsible" thing here? We can push a problem off to a foreign country (who handles it a lot worse than we would) and wash our hands of it but eventually things will be a lot worse for everyone. >Pollution in California used to be bad, then the people got serious about it, and now California has clean air We do? Must be my eyes then that make the air look smoggy every day. Look! If people want to fill their houses, garages, yards and public storage lockers with crap from China/Walmart, they should have to look outside and see the effects of it. Putting if off on the Chinese was one of the most irresponsible things that could have been done. Since this big shift in environmental policy that drove all the factories out of the the country, coupled with free trade agreements - US consumption of manufactured goods per capita has more than tripled. Why do we need all this crap? It is ruining the environment and we cannot even see the effects of it around us yet. If people could look around them and see gross pollution their over consumption was causing, only then would they really cut back on buying all the crap.
  - goggles99 13y ago
    Love the down-voted replies with no rebuttal. Shows the ignorance of HN viewers.
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      I didn't down vote, nor did I reply since I think your argument is a bit scattered. Obviously, we should consume less, but we should also push for better production methods. The argument that someone is willing to ruin their environment if we aren't isn't that useful; I know from first hand experience that it isn't viable in the long term....
nitrogen 13y ago
If those 16 ships are carrying goods from most efficient source to most efficient consumer at a cleaner carbon-per-pound-per-mile rate than a fleet of smaller ships, then it's a net win.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

Are you too young to know all the asthma kids that grew up in no and so cal in the 70s/80s? Pollution in California used to be bad, then the people got serious about it, and now California has clean air. Incremental my ass. I guess you would have settled for incrementally decreasing numbers of asthma kids? Pollution has gotten so bad in china that it is seriously threatening the CCP's continued existence. They will eventually get their balls just like California did, because it's a life and death kind of situation. After living with shit air for the last two+ years! I'm convinced pansy solutions won't work.

goggles99 13y ago
>Are you too young to know all the asthma kids that grew up in no and so cal in the 70s/80s? Pollution in California used to be bad, then the people got serious about it, and now California has clean air. Incremental my ass. I guess you would have settled for incrementally decreasing numbers of asthma kids? Because of the Laws that we made: OK kids the good news first... you don't have asthma. The bad news ... Millions of Chinese people through no fault of their own (but rather their government) are dead or dying and the planet is half dead too. Global climate change was accelerated significantly and will kill many of your great grandchildren and perhaps end the human race eventually... Feel better? Are you sure we really did the "Responsible" thing here? We can push a problem off to a foreign country (who handles it a lot worse than we would) and wash our hands of it but eventually things will be a lot worse for everyone. >Pollution in California used to be bad, then the people got serious about it, and now California has clean air We do? Must be my eyes then that make the air look smoggy every day. Look! If people want to fill their houses, garages, yards and public storage lockers with crap from China/Walmart, they should have to look outside and see the effects of it. Putting if off on the Chinese was one of the most irresponsible things that could have been done. Since this big shift in environmental policy that drove all the factories out of the the country, coupled with free trade agreements - US consumption of manufactured goods per capita has more than tripled. Why do we need all this crap? It is ruining the environment and we cannot even see the effects of it around us yet. If people could look around them and see gross pollution their over consumption was causing, only then would they really cut back on buying all the crap.
- goggles99 13y ago
  Love the down-voted replies with no rebuttal. Shows the ignorance of HN viewers.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    I didn't down vote, nor did I reply since I think your argument is a bit scattered. Obviously, we should consume less, but we should also push for better production methods. The argument that someone is willing to ruin their environment if we aren't isn't that useful; I know from first hand experience that it isn't viable in the long term....

nitrogen 13y ago

If those 16 ships are carrying goods from most efficient source to most efficient consumer at a cleaner carbon-per-pound-per-mile rate than a fleet of smaller ships, then it's a net win.