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> I've now spent more of my adult life outside the States than in the U.S., and I've also come to the opinion that the U.S. is one of the most amazing places in

> I've now spent more of my adult life outside the States than in the U.S., and I've also come to the opinion that the U.S. is one of the most amazing places in the world. Yes. The American backed/sponsored slaughter of innocent men, women, and children across the Middle East and Africa in the name of profit, power, and greed doesn't seem to cross your mind. Also, it's clear that as an American you have free speech, but Americans who speak too freely might not wake up to see tomorrow [1] [2] [1] http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-killed-michael-hastings/5355606 http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-killed-michael-hastings/535... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/22/white-house-drone-strikes-us-citizens http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/22/white-house-dro...

pliny 13y ago
When comparing things (the US is one of the most amazing places in the world -> the US is amazing in comparison to most places) it's usually more important to focus on differences rather than similarities. State-sponsored slaughter of innocent people in the Middle East and Africa is a pastime enthusiastically practiced by Canada and all of the "important" European nations (UK, Germany, France, and to a lesser extent Scandinavians) not just by the US.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  Could I get a Citation on Canada slaughtering innocent people in both the Middle East and Africa? I wasn't aware they had a deployed army large enough to be involved in "slaughtering" - and I know they declined to support the United States Incursion into Iraq - So I'm wondering where you are going with this...
  - Aloha 13y ago
    Canada has been a willing participant in Afghanistan[1] and as complicit as most of the world is in relations with Saudi Arabia.[2] While complicitness is not the same a direct action, it furthers the argument that I wish to make - in international relations, there is no such thing as clean hands. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_role_in_the_Afghanistan_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_role_in_the_Afghanista... - [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_relations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_rel...
    - ghshephard 13y ago
      I know Canada is involved in Afghanistan. Attacks on United States in 2001 were based from Afghanistan. Afghanistan defended the probable leaders of attack. Canada is a member of NATO, and responded in what most would consider a "Just War.", for better or worse. But, irrespective of all that - Afghanistan is in Asia. I'm wondering if you could point to any indication of Canadian Forces slaughtering innocent people in the Middle East or Africa in the last 10 years? Curious, more than anything else.
consz 13y ago
What you said doesn't contradict what he was saying. It's certainly possible that the most amazing country in the world also slaughters innocents in the Middle East and Africa.
Aloha 13y ago
Iraq pales in comparison to the deaths caused by European colonialism in Africa (or pretty much anywhere else in the world). Beyond that - Saddam killed roughly 10 [1][2] times as many people as were killed as a direct result of the invasion of Iraq - and most of those deaths we're as a result of sectarian violence - not direct action by the US Forces. When it comes down to it, war is messy business - regardless of the causes of it - I was opposed to the war in Iraq - I rightly predicted it would turn into my generations Vietnam - but in the end, the die is cast. In re your first link - I wouldn't call global research a unbiased or objective source by any measure, period. [3] In re your second link - show me a single country that guarantees the rights of its citizens when outside of the nominal borders of its country, and when those citizens are committing what would amount to acts of war against their country of citizenship. I believe strongly in the right of free speech, and I've seen very few cases in my own country where those rights have been abridged or denuded in any way. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project#Body_count http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project#Body_co... - [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein's_Iraq#Number_of_Victims http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein'... - [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca
vectorsys 13y ago
You hatred of America is because of its core founding beliefs. You just don't have the courage to say it.
sp332 13y ago
It's because of "standard being-an-American stuff" that people could possibly stand up to entrenched political and financial interests and have a hope of stopping them, which we do.
csense 13y ago
> The American backed/sponsored slaughter of innocent men, women, and children I'm pretty sure that the innocent men, women and children who have been killed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were not systematically slaughtered, and in fact I do believe that the American military made every reasonable effort to minimize civilian casualties. > across the Middle East and Africa Can you go into more detail what, exactly, you mean by that? Two countries -- Iraq and Afghanistan -- is hardly "across the Middle East," and neither of them is in Africa. > in the name of profit, power, and greed I thought our activities in the Middle East were in the name of preventing future terrorist attacks.

pliny 13y ago

When comparing things (the US is one of the most amazing places in the world -> the US is amazing in comparison to most places) it's usually more important to focus on differences rather than similarities. State-sponsored slaughter of innocent people in the Middle East and Africa is a pastime enthusiastically practiced by Canada and all of the "important" European nations (UK, Germany, France, and to a lesser extent Scandinavians) not just by the US.

ghshephard 13y ago
Could I get a Citation on Canada slaughtering innocent people in both the Middle East and Africa? I wasn't aware they had a deployed army large enough to be involved in "slaughtering" - and I know they declined to support the United States Incursion into Iraq - So I'm wondering where you are going with this...
- Aloha 13y ago
  Canada has been a willing participant in Afghanistan[1] and as complicit as most of the world is in relations with Saudi Arabia.[2] While complicitness is not the same a direct action, it furthers the argument that I wish to make - in international relations, there is no such thing as clean hands. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_role_in_the_Afghanistan_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada's_role_in_the_Afghanista... - [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_relations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_rel...
  - ghshephard 13y ago
    I know Canada is involved in Afghanistan. Attacks on United States in 2001 were based from Afghanistan. Afghanistan defended the probable leaders of attack. Canada is a member of NATO, and responded in what most would consider a "Just War.", for better or worse. But, irrespective of all that - Afghanistan is in Asia. I'm wondering if you could point to any indication of Canadian Forces slaughtering innocent people in the Middle East or Africa in the last 10 years? Curious, more than anything else.

consz 13y ago

What you said doesn't contradict what he was saying. It's certainly possible that the most amazing country in the world also slaughters innocents in the Middle East and Africa.

Aloha 13y ago

Iraq pales in comparison to the deaths caused by European colonialism in Africa (or pretty much anywhere else in the world). Beyond that - Saddam killed roughly 10 [1][2] times as many people as were killed as a direct result of the invasion of Iraq - and most of those deaths we're as a result of sectarian violence - not direct action by the US Forces. When it comes down to it, war is messy business - regardless of the causes of it - I was opposed to the war in Iraq - I rightly predicted it would turn into my generations Vietnam - but in the end, the die is cast. In re your first link - I wouldn't call global research a unbiased or objective source by any measure, period. [3] In re your second link - show me a single country that guarantees the rights of its citizens when outside of the nominal borders of its country, and when those citizens are committing what would amount to acts of war against their country of citizenship. I believe strongly in the right of free speech, and I've seen very few cases in my own country where those rights have been abridged or denuded in any way. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project#Body_count http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project#Body_co... - [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein's_Iraq#Number_of_Victims http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein'... - [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

vectorsys 13y ago

You hatred of America is because of its core founding beliefs. You just don't have the courage to say it.

sp332 13y ago

It's because of "standard being-an-American stuff" that people could possibly stand up to entrenched political and financial interests and have a hope of stopping them, which we do.

csense 13y ago

> The American backed/sponsored slaughter of innocent men, women, and children I'm pretty sure that the innocent men, women and children who have been killed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were not systematically slaughtered, and in fact I do believe that the American military made every reasonable effort to minimize civilian casualties. > across the Middle East and Africa Can you go into more detail what, exactly, you mean by that? Two countries -- Iraq and Afghanistan -- is hardly "across the Middle East," and neither of them is in Africa. > in the name of profit, power, and greed I thought our activities in the Middle East were in the name of preventing future terrorist attacks.