5 ms·

Embarcadero Bridges Gap From Desktop to Mobile - supports iOS in C++Builder XE5

16 points by srisa 13y ago

japaget 13y ago
Embarcadero C++Builder is the successor to Borland's Turbo C. It has changed names several times, having been marketed under the brands Borland, Inprise, CodeGear, and Embarcadero.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Actually Borland C++. The guys responsible for those changes of brand killed Borland products. :(
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Actually Borland C++. Actually, Borland C++Builder.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      Yeah, you are right. I went a bit far into the past.
- malkia 13y ago
  Makes me wonder if they should not bring the old Borland name (or even Turbo). That'll resonate at least with a lot more older developers (that might be managers now). I stared with programming with TURBO.COM (Turbo Pascal 3.0) - it was 33kb DOS executable and had built-in editor - fit on a diskette, and there was space for other things. I skipped version 4 (Turbo/Borland Pascal) and had most fun with 5.0 and 5.5, then 6.0 was solid, and later it was the last time I've used Borland products - the first Delphi and that was it. Turbo Vision (Borland's GUI for Text Mode - e.g. DOS) was very advanced. I've briefly tried OWL (C/C++ I think) - but had to move onto other things. Then Delphi was very easy to build interfaces, and later when Microsoft snatched Anders Hejlsberg it kind of resurfaced in Microsoft's products. For example MFC's GUI editing was much worse (and still is) than whatever Delphi had 15 or more years ago (my opinion, I know too many MFC fans out there, and surely they still love it).
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Delphi could have been the modern C# if Borland had better management, I would say.
  - barrkel 13y ago
    The Borland name was bought by Microfocus after Borland sold the developer tools division to Embarcadero.
tux10 13y ago
The biggest issue C++Builder has for me is that it is pretty damn expensive considering Xcode is included as part of OS X. The Professional version is £850 and still requires the extra purchase of the Mobile Add-on pack which is an extra £423! That makes the total cost £1273!! I would rather pay less and buy a Macbook Air which comes with Xcode.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  If it is just you, it might be expensive, but it is pretty cheap for big companies, when you compare it with other commercial frameworks or compilers.
  - tux10 13y ago
    Yeah I am talking about individuals. I guess I am not their target customer though. Obviously to big companies a few thousand is nothing (especially when you look at >$10k for MSDN Ultimate) but Embarcadero have zero products aimed towards the individual developer (not even the Starter Edition is worth it as it is so limited for the price).
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      > Embarcadero have zero products aimed towards the individual developer I think that is a sign of what the company has become, after being about to close so many times. I bet it lives mostly from enterprise legacy contracts nowadays.
      - tux10 13y ago
        Yeah I can't remember the last place I saw running any Borland/Embarcadero software with the exception of some really old stuff still compiled with C++Builder6. That place was also running Visual Studio 6 for some stuff too :) Ahh the memories.
        mamcx 13y ago
        Delphi 3 was the first program that I pay for (second was visual foxpro). Obviously, at US99 a student like me could do it. I'm moderator in the http://www.clubdelphi.com http://www.clubdelphi.com and is sad to see all the same faces all the time. New blood is hard to get, specially in latin america, when .NET is affordable/free and all the open source stuff. Is sad that the misguided strategy that start with the Borland has pass up to Embarcadero. Where they must look for broad appeal they decide to milk instead :(. Delphi was huge (Delphi 3 - 5) and if they have more critical mass now will be a powerful force. The worst? Delphi is SOOOO good that have survived despite all the problems so far. Still, Delphi + Python are my favorites languages of all the time...
networked 13y ago
According Embarcadero's website Delphi XE5 offers all the same plus Android support: http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi, http://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder http://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder. If they're targeting mobile developers I wonder why Embarcadero hasn't released a cheap "indie" version of Delphi yet. Last I checked it had much better compile times than C++Builder and the language itself could easily be marketed as a "friendlier C++". Meanwhile, outside of some larger companies where it's entrenched Delphi's popularity is waning. Edit: Now that I've looked at their online store through a US proxy I see that they have: https://store.embarcadero.com/542/catalog/product.s3703/language.en/currency.USD/ https://store.embarcadero.com/542/catalog/product.s3703/lang.... Not that the conditions are very good: >If you’re an individual you may use the Starter Edition to create apps for your own use and apps that you can sell until your revenues reach $1,000 per year. If you’re a small company or organization without revenue (or up to $1,000 per year in revenue), you can also use the Starter Edition. Once your company's total revenue reaches US $1,000, or your team expands to more than 5 developers, move up to the Professional edition with an unrestricted commercial license. The upgrade from Starter to Professional costs $899.00.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  I used to love Borland tools. Having learned Turbo Pascal before C, I never liked C, given the capabilities of Turbo Pascal. Type safety, blazing compile times, modules, system level programming, objects. Management killed Borland products thanks to their continuous change of brand, lack of investment on Kylix and Anders going to Microsoft. Most customers became reluctant to keep investing on their tooling.
  - malkia 13y ago
    I loved it too. I moved to "C" because of one missing function in Pascal (and as I would say now - it's runtime library) - "movefile" - e.g. moving file from one directory to another. Also someone was spreading rumours that all games were written in C/C++ so we had to move to it :) When I learned assembly, and got my Ralph Brown's interrupt list (best thing ever back in the days) I went back to Pascal and made little assembly function for "movefile". I remmember friend of mine, who just moved to "C" put all his code in the .h file - and it was compiling all the time. Back then having .TPU file and not having to write additional header file was very advanced compared to C/C++ - and the compilation times were much faster.
cmollis 13y ago
here's what most cross-platform library vendors never get: it's actually easier, and ultimately faster, to learn each environment's native API, then learn one cross-platform API and all of the idiosyncrasies on each platform it supports. Inevitably, there will be some aspect of the native platform that doesn't work correctly within the x-platform sdk and then you have to hack around it.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  The first time I got to learn that was when I had to maintain a server application across the commercial UNIXes of the 90's. POSIX was not as portable as they advertised.
72deluxe 13y ago
I used to use Borland's products in a job. They used C++ Builder 6 and migrated their code to the later compiler, Codegear 2007 and it was truly dire (6 was alright). It was exceptionally buggy, the linker continually crashed, and the help system took 14 hours to install (not an exaggeration). The VCL had difficulty with manifests and proper theming on XP and above I think (particularly tab pages) and it desperately needed fixing / replacing. The company tested the version after 2007 and it would compile illegal C++. I think after they spent years developing C++ Architect and then chucking it in the bin, many of the developers jumped ship and Borland was left with few developers, a shell of its former self. They also had stupid products like their PHP IDE (I wonder how many they actually sold???) and as far as I know the company I used to work for is still making software using the creaking aging VCL! A large code base to rewrite is no fun! A shame for Borland (or whatever they are called these days) but I am not inclined to buy this software.

16 points by srisa 13y ago

Embarcadero C++Builder is the successor to Borland's Turbo C. It has changed names several times, having been marketed under the brands Borland, Inprise, CodeGear, and Embarcadero.

pjmlp 13y ago
Actually Borland C++. The guys responsible for those changes of brand killed Borland products. :(
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Actually Borland C++. Actually, Borland C++Builder.
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Yeah, you are right. I went a bit far into the past.
malkia 13y ago
Makes me wonder if they should not bring the old Borland name (or even Turbo). That'll resonate at least with a lot more older developers (that might be managers now). I stared with programming with TURBO.COM (Turbo Pascal 3.0) - it was 33kb DOS executable and had built-in editor - fit on a diskette, and there was space for other things. I skipped version 4 (Turbo/Borland Pascal) and had most fun with 5.0 and 5.5, then 6.0 was solid, and later it was the last time I've used Borland products - the first Delphi and that was it. Turbo Vision (Borland's GUI for Text Mode - e.g. DOS) was very advanced. I've briefly tried OWL (C/C++ I think) - but had to move onto other things. Then Delphi was very easy to build interfaces, and later when Microsoft snatched Anders Hejlsberg it kind of resurfaced in Microsoft's products. For example MFC's GUI editing was much worse (and still is) than whatever Delphi had 15 or more years ago (my opinion, I know too many MFC fans out there, and surely they still love it).
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Delphi could have been the modern C# if Borland had better management, I would say.
- barrkel 13y ago
  The Borland name was bought by Microfocus after Borland sold the developer tools division to Embarcadero.

tux10 13y ago

The biggest issue C++Builder has for me is that it is pretty damn expensive considering Xcode is included as part of OS X. The Professional version is £850 and still requires the extra purchase of the Mobile Add-on pack which is an extra £423! That makes the total cost £1273!! I would rather pay less and buy a Macbook Air which comes with Xcode.

pjmlp 13y ago
If it is just you, it might be expensive, but it is pretty cheap for big companies, when you compare it with other commercial frameworks or compilers.
- tux10 13y ago
  Yeah I am talking about individuals. I guess I am not their target customer though. Obviously to big companies a few thousand is nothing (especially when you look at >$10k for MSDN Ultimate) but Embarcadero have zero products aimed towards the individual developer (not even the Starter Edition is worth it as it is so limited for the price).
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    > Embarcadero have zero products aimed towards the individual developer I think that is a sign of what the company has become, after being about to close so many times. I bet it lives mostly from enterprise legacy contracts nowadays.
    - tux10 13y ago
      Yeah I can't remember the last place I saw running any Borland/Embarcadero software with the exception of some really old stuff still compiled with C++Builder6. That place was also running Visual Studio 6 for some stuff too :) Ahh the memories.
      - mamcx 13y ago
        Delphi 3 was the first program that I pay for (second was visual foxpro). Obviously, at US99 a student like me could do it. I'm moderator in the http://www.clubdelphi.com http://www.clubdelphi.com and is sad to see all the same faces all the time. New blood is hard to get, specially in latin america, when .NET is affordable/free and all the open source stuff. Is sad that the misguided strategy that start with the Borland has pass up to Embarcadero. Where they must look for broad appeal they decide to milk instead :(. Delphi was huge (Delphi 3 - 5) and if they have more critical mass now will be a powerful force. The worst? Delphi is SOOOO good that have survived despite all the problems so far. Still, Delphi + Python are my favorites languages of all the time...

networked 13y ago

According Embarcadero's website Delphi XE5 offers all the same plus Android support: http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi, http://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder http://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder. If they're targeting mobile developers I wonder why Embarcadero hasn't released a cheap "indie" version of Delphi yet. Last I checked it had much better compile times than C++Builder and the language itself could easily be marketed as a "friendlier C++". Meanwhile, outside of some larger companies where it's entrenched Delphi's popularity is waning. Edit: Now that I've looked at their online store through a US proxy I see that they have: https://store.embarcadero.com/542/catalog/product.s3703/language.en/currency.USD/ https://store.embarcadero.com/542/catalog/product.s3703/lang.... Not that the conditions are very good: >If you’re an individual you may use the Starter Edition to create apps for your own use and apps that you can sell until your revenues reach $1,000 per year. If you’re a small company or organization without revenue (or up to $1,000 per year in revenue), you can also use the Starter Edition. Once your company's total revenue reaches US $1,000, or your team expands to more than 5 developers, move up to the Professional edition with an unrestricted commercial license. The upgrade from Starter to Professional costs $899.00.

pjmlp 13y ago
I used to love Borland tools. Having learned Turbo Pascal before C, I never liked C, given the capabilities of Turbo Pascal. Type safety, blazing compile times, modules, system level programming, objects. Management killed Borland products thanks to their continuous change of brand, lack of investment on Kylix and Anders going to Microsoft. Most customers became reluctant to keep investing on their tooling.
- malkia 13y ago
  I loved it too. I moved to "C" because of one missing function in Pascal (and as I would say now - it's runtime library) - "movefile" - e.g. moving file from one directory to another. Also someone was spreading rumours that all games were written in C/C++ so we had to move to it :) When I learned assembly, and got my Ralph Brown's interrupt list (best thing ever back in the days) I went back to Pascal and made little assembly function for "movefile". I remmember friend of mine, who just moved to "C" put all his code in the .h file - and it was compiling all the time. Back then having .TPU file and not having to write additional header file was very advanced compared to C/C++ - and the compilation times were much faster.

cmollis 13y ago

here's what most cross-platform library vendors never get: it's actually easier, and ultimately faster, to learn each environment's native API, then learn one cross-platform API and all of the idiosyncrasies on each platform it supports. Inevitably, there will be some aspect of the native platform that doesn't work correctly within the x-platform sdk and then you have to hack around it.

pjmlp 13y ago
The first time I got to learn that was when I had to maintain a server application across the commercial UNIXes of the 90's. POSIX was not as portable as they advertised.

72deluxe 13y ago

I used to use Borland's products in a job. They used C++ Builder 6 and migrated their code to the later compiler, Codegear 2007 and it was truly dire (6 was alright). It was exceptionally buggy, the linker continually crashed, and the help system took 14 hours to install (not an exaggeration). The VCL had difficulty with manifests and proper theming on XP and above I think (particularly tab pages) and it desperately needed fixing / replacing. The company tested the version after 2007 and it would compile illegal C++. I think after they spent years developing C++ Architect and then chucking it in the bin, many of the developers jumped ship and Borland was left with few developers, a shell of its former self. They also had stupid products like their PHP IDE (I wonder how many they actually sold???) and as far as I know the company I used to work for is still making software using the creaking aging VCL! A large code base to rewrite is no fun! A shame for Borland (or whatever they are called these days) but I am not inclined to buy this software.