7 ms·

Don't underestimate the number of people who place no value whatsoever on principals and ideals, like privacy and self-autonomy. They will overlook, dismiss, an

by pstack 13y ago

Don't underestimate the number of people who place no value whatsoever on principals and ideals, like privacy and self-autonomy. They will overlook, dismiss, and excuse practically any type of observation and invasion, because they "don't have anything to hide". That is the limit to the thought they put into the subject. Abstract concepts are beyond them, either in capacity to think or, at least, in interest. As long as there is an abundance of these people undermining fundamental values that benefit all of society, we are profoundly doomed.

chimeracoder 13y ago
And don't underestimate how quickly a person can "discover" such principles as soon as they discover they have been harmed noticeably by these practices, even once. The main "problem" with the Snowden leaks so far is that we don't have have a highly public, tangible example of a relateable person (or group of similar people) who have lost their jobs, or been blackmailed, or in some other way have been direct victims of the NSA surveillance. (This is not to say that any of the above hasn't happened - the whole problem is that we just don't have a clear narrative linking the story together).
- pstack 13y ago
  I both hope and fear that you're right. We all-to-often see people more interested in voting for and supporting things based on "what am I going to get out of this" as opposed to more vital abstract things like "is this right". What's best for me, personally, right this moment, rather than what is better for society and the freedom of the individual in the future. So, I suspect you may be right about that motivation and I fear what will happen that will finally lead people to care about the issue (because of their own personal impact; rather than giving a damn about it as an issue at large). More, I wonder if whatever causes that will come too late. People are now old enough to vote, who have no concept of a country that didn't have a TSA, DHS, didn't use the word "Homeland", didn't have razor-wire-fenced-in "free speech pens", and wasn't constantly under some vague threat of terrorism. Their kids are going to grow up in a world where they will not have known a time when everything they did wasn't monitored, archived, and used against them and where they had any expectation of privacy. I fear that we'll become successively more accustom to each infringement and invasion with no expectation of it being otherwise and will therefore accept those "minor" infringements over our life time, which then become the basis point for the next generation.

by pstack 13y ago

chimeracoder 13y ago

And don't underestimate how quickly a person can "discover" such principles as soon as they discover they have been harmed noticeably by these practices, even once. The main "problem" with the Snowden leaks so far is that we don't have have a highly public, tangible example of a relateable person (or group of similar people) who have lost their jobs, or been blackmailed, or in some other way have been direct victims of the NSA surveillance. (This is not to say that any of the above hasn't happened - the whole problem is that we just don't have a clear narrative linking the story together).

pstack 13y ago
I both hope and fear that you're right. We all-to-often see people more interested in voting for and supporting things based on "what am I going to get out of this" as opposed to more vital abstract things like "is this right". What's best for me, personally, right this moment, rather than what is better for society and the freedom of the individual in the future. So, I suspect you may be right about that motivation and I fear what will happen that will finally lead people to care about the issue (because of their own personal impact; rather than giving a damn about it as an issue at large). More, I wonder if whatever causes that will come too late. People are now old enough to vote, who have no concept of a country that didn't have a TSA, DHS, didn't use the word "Homeland", didn't have razor-wire-fenced-in "free speech pens", and wasn't constantly under some vague threat of terrorism. Their kids are going to grow up in a world where they will not have known a time when everything they did wasn't monitored, archived, and used against them and where they had any expectation of privacy. I fear that we'll become successively more accustom to each infringement and invasion with no expectation of it being otherwise and will therefore accept those "minor" infringements over our life time, which then become the basis point for the next generation.