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My wife and I live in a ~720 sq. foot loft we built inside of an airplane hangar. The story is here: http://www.makingthishome.com/hangar-loft-remodel/ http://w

My wife and I live in a ~720 sq. foot loft we built inside of an airplane hangar. The story is here: http://www.makingthishome.com/hangar-loft-remodel/ http://www.makingthishome.com/hangar-loft-remodel/ We really love living in smaller spaces.

franl 13y ago
Wow, beautiful space!!
dredmorbius 13y ago
So ... I saw Katie's "Tire House" post. I've seen and read some of Mike Reynolds' work, but hadn't seen anyone specifically critical of the Earthship design. Is there a specific post which gets into the downsides of the mode of construction or do I have to read her whole blog to find out? http://www.makingthishome.com/2009/05/27/earthship-tour-aka-tire-house-tour/ http://www.makingthishome.com/2009/05/27/earthship-tour-aka-...
- SpacemanSpiff 13y ago
  In a nutshell, we encountered two problems (which may or may not be prevalent with all Earthships) 1. Extreme temperature fluctuations. You're essentially living inside a solar collector. In the fall, the sun would blaze in through the windows, and I know you're supposed to have overhangs, shades and air vents and underground air circulation systems, all of which we used. The bottom line is you can't cheat physics. Even with the shades closed, the house is receiving over 300k BTU/hr of solar heat. This is just too much for any reasonably sized cooling system to handle. My infrared thermometer measured surface temperatures in excess of 140 deg. F on surfaces near the windows. In the winter, the same windows would leak heat like a sieve. Here in Montana when it's overcast, 10 deg. F, and the wind is blowing 30 mph the front of the house would barely reach 55 deg F. This was with the 30k BTU propane furnace going 100% duty cycle. I would work at my computer with long pants, a sweater, a blanket over my legs, and an electric heater blowing under the blanket :) The rear of the house is built into the hillside, so it would be warmer in the back, but you could never get the place past about about 65-68 in the winter no matter how much you tried. The sheer size of the front windows and lack of insulation again made the house design at odds with thermodynamics in my opinion. For the sake of comparison, our place in the hangar has ~R30 walls to the hangar, and again about ~R25 walls to the outside. We have in-floor radiant heat provided by our geothermal heat pump. Earlier this month when it was -20 deg. F outside we were toasty warm at 74 (we have a newborn child in the house now). And we were using significantly less energy to heat than at the Earthship. 2. Mice. The house construction methods are inherently porous, and mice have infiltrated the entire structure. They live in the cavities the walls form (and the roof supports), along the utility raceways in the ceiling, under cabinets, everywhere. I surmise that the mice have tunneled through the back of the hillside, between the tires, and up into the hollow cavities which support the ceiling. They then use this space to move around the inside of the house structure to other areas. No amount of trapping poisoning, etc. has slowed the onslaught of mice into the house. If the only way to prevent mice from infiltrating your supposedly green house is to use concrete in its construction and set outdoor poison traps which potentially kill hundreds of mice and may harm animals which then consume the poisoned mice, is this really such a green alternative? I've visited an Earthship being constructed in Big Sky Montana by Mike Reynolds this year. The design changes I've seen may partially address point 1, but as far as point 2 I'm not at all convinced that this new house will be any better. I admire his vision, and that he's been able to take his ideas so far. From an engineering standpoint, even taking into account the ecological footprint of the structure, I'm not convinced that his approach is the best when you look at the whole picture.
  - orasis 13y ago
    I live in a passive solar house with probably 10 foot overhangs on the south facing windows. I have no heat problems in the summer. Do you think sufficient overhangs would have solved the earthship problem? I also live in Montana.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    Thanks for that, I'd wondered. For the thermal properties of the southern window exposure, I've wondered about that and in particular how that was affected by both summer and winter conditions. The fact that the EarthShips were first built in Taos, NM, which does get cold, but not quite to Montana conditions, suggested to me that the glazing might be a problem in colder climates. I've been to the Rocky Mountain Institute in Snowmass, CO, which has more extreme conditions, and it too shares both the semi-subterranean nature and large southern glass exposure of the Earthships (Lovins grows bananas in the atrium, in a bit of cheek). Specifically: ⚫ What is the glazing? I'd hope for at least double-paned on the windows. ⚫ Some sort of exterior shading -- and awning, tree plantings, or removable sunshades (bamboo, canvas, or similar) might help the fall exposure. ⚫ Creating an internal vestibule, closing off the front garden from the main living space with a second set of doors/windows, or increasing the airflow through skylights or other openings might help moderate internal temperatures in both warmer and colder months. ⚫ Internal window coverings could minimize heat losses in the winter. 65-68F is actually about a perfect indoor temperature for me (if not excessively warm), so I wouldn't be complaining about that, though I realize not everyone feels that way. I understand you were renting, not owning, so not all of these modifications would have been viable, but ... so it seems. The mouse problem seems trickier. A cat (or snakes) might help. For pest control, it's seemed to me that solutions aimed at reproduction (bait with birth control in it, for example) tend to be more effective, though if you've got a large external breeding population there's likely no way you could keep up. Knowing what kinds of openings rodents can get through, sealing off the structure seems all but impossible. Gives you an additional appreciation for why the Egyptians worshiped cats as gods, however. -
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    These pushes for housing like Earthships are curious, especially in light of your comments (which mirror my expectations). Not curious by themselves, but curious in what they represent. Humans developed modern housing specifically to combat weather, slow ingress by pests, etc. I wonder if this Earthship (etc) movement represents a shift in where we are living. Ages ago, Europeans & Mediterraneans lived in a lot of unfavorable weather. Do more people live in temperate regions today, for a movement like this to happen? Why would that be the case? Perhaps shipping & the global economy have created a class of peoples that can live wherever they choose, where such a class of people did not exist before?
smoyer 13y ago
Best username ever - and perfect for someone that lives in a hanger!

franl 13y ago

Wow, beautiful space!!

dredmorbius 13y ago

So ... I saw Katie's "Tire House" post. I've seen and read some of Mike Reynolds' work, but hadn't seen anyone specifically critical of the Earthship design. Is there a specific post which gets into the downsides of the mode of construction or do I have to read her whole blog to find out? http://www.makingthishome.com/2009/05/27/earthship-tour-aka-tire-house-tour/ http://www.makingthishome.com/2009/05/27/earthship-tour-aka-...

SpacemanSpiff 13y ago
In a nutshell, we encountered two problems (which may or may not be prevalent with all Earthships) 1. Extreme temperature fluctuations. You're essentially living inside a solar collector. In the fall, the sun would blaze in through the windows, and I know you're supposed to have overhangs, shades and air vents and underground air circulation systems, all of which we used. The bottom line is you can't cheat physics. Even with the shades closed, the house is receiving over 300k BTU/hr of solar heat. This is just too much for any reasonably sized cooling system to handle. My infrared thermometer measured surface temperatures in excess of 140 deg. F on surfaces near the windows. In the winter, the same windows would leak heat like a sieve. Here in Montana when it's overcast, 10 deg. F, and the wind is blowing 30 mph the front of the house would barely reach 55 deg F. This was with the 30k BTU propane furnace going 100% duty cycle. I would work at my computer with long pants, a sweater, a blanket over my legs, and an electric heater blowing under the blanket :) The rear of the house is built into the hillside, so it would be warmer in the back, but you could never get the place past about about 65-68 in the winter no matter how much you tried. The sheer size of the front windows and lack of insulation again made the house design at odds with thermodynamics in my opinion. For the sake of comparison, our place in the hangar has ~R30 walls to the hangar, and again about ~R25 walls to the outside. We have in-floor radiant heat provided by our geothermal heat pump. Earlier this month when it was -20 deg. F outside we were toasty warm at 74 (we have a newborn child in the house now). And we were using significantly less energy to heat than at the Earthship. 2. Mice. The house construction methods are inherently porous, and mice have infiltrated the entire structure. They live in the cavities the walls form (and the roof supports), along the utility raceways in the ceiling, under cabinets, everywhere. I surmise that the mice have tunneled through the back of the hillside, between the tires, and up into the hollow cavities which support the ceiling. They then use this space to move around the inside of the house structure to other areas. No amount of trapping poisoning, etc. has slowed the onslaught of mice into the house. If the only way to prevent mice from infiltrating your supposedly green house is to use concrete in its construction and set outdoor poison traps which potentially kill hundreds of mice and may harm animals which then consume the poisoned mice, is this really such a green alternative? I've visited an Earthship being constructed in Big Sky Montana by Mike Reynolds this year. The design changes I've seen may partially address point 1, but as far as point 2 I'm not at all convinced that this new house will be any better. I admire his vision, and that he's been able to take his ideas so far. From an engineering standpoint, even taking into account the ecological footprint of the structure, I'm not convinced that his approach is the best when you look at the whole picture.
- orasis 13y ago
  I live in a passive solar house with probably 10 foot overhangs on the south facing windows. I have no heat problems in the summer. Do you think sufficient overhangs would have solved the earthship problem? I also live in Montana.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Thanks for that, I'd wondered. For the thermal properties of the southern window exposure, I've wondered about that and in particular how that was affected by both summer and winter conditions. The fact that the EarthShips were first built in Taos, NM, which does get cold, but not quite to Montana conditions, suggested to me that the glazing might be a problem in colder climates. I've been to the Rocky Mountain Institute in Snowmass, CO, which has more extreme conditions, and it too shares both the semi-subterranean nature and large southern glass exposure of the Earthships (Lovins grows bananas in the atrium, in a bit of cheek). Specifically: ⚫ What is the glazing? I'd hope for at least double-paned on the windows. ⚫ Some sort of exterior shading -- and awning, tree plantings, or removable sunshades (bamboo, canvas, or similar) might help the fall exposure. ⚫ Creating an internal vestibule, closing off the front garden from the main living space with a second set of doors/windows, or increasing the airflow through skylights or other openings might help moderate internal temperatures in both warmer and colder months. ⚫ Internal window coverings could minimize heat losses in the winter. 65-68F is actually about a perfect indoor temperature for me (if not excessively warm), so I wouldn't be complaining about that, though I realize not everyone feels that way. I understand you were renting, not owning, so not all of these modifications would have been viable, but ... so it seems. The mouse problem seems trickier. A cat (or snakes) might help. For pest control, it's seemed to me that solutions aimed at reproduction (bait with birth control in it, for example) tend to be more effective, though if you've got a large external breeding population there's likely no way you could keep up. Knowing what kinds of openings rodents can get through, sealing off the structure seems all but impossible. Gives you an additional appreciation for why the Egyptians worshiped cats as gods, however. -
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  These pushes for housing like Earthships are curious, especially in light of your comments (which mirror my expectations). Not curious by themselves, but curious in what they represent. Humans developed modern housing specifically to combat weather, slow ingress by pests, etc. I wonder if this Earthship (etc) movement represents a shift in where we are living. Ages ago, Europeans & Mediterraneans lived in a lot of unfavorable weather. Do more people live in temperate regions today, for a movement like this to happen? Why would that be the case? Perhaps shipping & the global economy have created a class of peoples that can live wherever they choose, where such a class of people did not exist before?

smoyer 13y ago

Best username ever - and perfect for someone that lives in a hanger!