5 ms·

Well, TCP is a very simple protocol so I can't imagine what the OP means by "all of TCP" unless he's talking about IP and it's associated services.

mikeash 13y ago
Because TCP is very simple, you can't imagine that "all of TCP" means what it actually says? Huh?
- FuckFrankie 13y ago
  You guys are just to smart for me, I guess I'll have to withdraw from having any conversation at all since I've been downvoted into hellban for asking a question.
  - TallGuyShort 13y ago
    There is no need to be sarcastic. tptacek is pointing out that this is only one portion of that protocol. "The entire Internet" and the rest of the protocol are not the same thing. If you've been downvoted or hellbanned, it's not simply because you asked a question.
  - RiderOfGiraffes 13y ago
    Here's some very personal advice. This is my opinion, and others won't agree. However, for what it's worth ... I would suggest that you would benefit from learning how to ask questions. Here's a start: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html However, there's more advice than that, and that, although a good start, is not to be taken as gospel. You probably also should read the site-specific commentary, and suggested alternatives: https://mikeash.com/getting_answers.html https://mikeash.com/getting_answers.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911381 The point is this - you said: Well, TCP is a very simple protocol so I can't imagine what the OP means by "all of TCP" unless he's talking about IP and it's associated services. Here's an alternative: I'm not sure I understand what's been left out of this. Could someone provide a synopsis, and a pointer to more details? Your comment comes across as "Well I know everything, so the only thing that's left out must be all the internet." The second admits that you don't know what people are talking about, and asks for more information. And just as a final question - why do you think you've been hell-banned? Are you sure? In particular, I've turned on "Show dead", and you don't seem to have made any comments that have been auto-killed. The evidence suggests you are not hell-banned.
    - jonmrodriguez 13y ago
      It also probably doesn't help that the username "FuckFrankie" sounds aggressive / combative
  - cpayne 13y ago
    If you honestly think you've been downvoted for "asking a question", take a moment to think about the type of question you asked and the way you asked it.
eloff 13y ago
TCP is actually extremely complex, see http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol I don't think I could implement it in under 4000 sloc, and I'd guess it'd be over two months worth of work for just a minimal TCP stack that could interoperate with the internet at large.
- userbinator 13y ago
  TCP is only complex because of all the optional bits for performance tuning, but if you are only interested in size, look on the embedded side. The actual core functionality is much smaller, and I would even go as far as to say that a lot of the widely used open-source TCP/IP stacks obfuscate this with their added complexities. E.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIP_(micro_IP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIP_(micro_IP)
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Uh. No. TCP is complex because it works in the scenario where you, me, and 20 coworkers share a fast LAN hooked up to a slow pipe to the Internet and we all have to share that pipe constantly but nobody actually knows exactly who's trying to do what with it. TCP congestion control is a minor miracle even before you realize that this plays out writ large across the whole Internet, large-pipe-huge-pipe-small-pipe-big-pipe, without the Internet collapsing, which is what it used to do. One of the big challenges in designing fast scalable transports that gain speed by allowing drops or out of order delivery is in making them compatible with the congestion control regime that TCP implements. TCP is complex because it solves a mindbogglingly complex problem. That it is as small as it actually is makes it one of the more elegant things ever to come out of computer networking.
    - derefr 13y ago
      > One of the big challenges in designing fast scalable transports that gain speed by allowing drops or out of order delivery is in making them compatible with the congestion control regime that TCP implements. I would argue that this very thing makes TCP inelegant; congestion-control should really have been its own layer between IP and TCP, instead of being something that every protocol that's not UDP has to carefully reimplement.

mikeash 13y ago

Because TCP is very simple, you can't imagine that "all of TCP" means what it actually says? Huh?

FuckFrankie 13y ago
You guys are just to smart for me, I guess I'll have to withdraw from having any conversation at all since I've been downvoted into hellban for asking a question.
- TallGuyShort 13y ago
  There is no need to be sarcastic. tptacek is pointing out that this is only one portion of that protocol. "The entire Internet" and the rest of the protocol are not the same thing. If you've been downvoted or hellbanned, it's not simply because you asked a question.
- RiderOfGiraffes 13y ago
  Here's some very personal advice. This is my opinion, and others won't agree. However, for what it's worth ... I would suggest that you would benefit from learning how to ask questions. Here's a start: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html However, there's more advice than that, and that, although a good start, is not to be taken as gospel. You probably also should read the site-specific commentary, and suggested alternatives: https://mikeash.com/getting_answers.html https://mikeash.com/getting_answers.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2911381 The point is this - you said: Well, TCP is a very simple protocol so I can't imagine what the OP means by "all of TCP" unless he's talking about IP and it's associated services. Here's an alternative: I'm not sure I understand what's been left out of this. Could someone provide a synopsis, and a pointer to more details? Your comment comes across as "Well I know everything, so the only thing that's left out must be all the internet." The second admits that you don't know what people are talking about, and asks for more information. And just as a final question - why do you think you've been hell-banned? Are you sure? In particular, I've turned on "Show dead", and you don't seem to have made any comments that have been auto-killed. The evidence suggests you are not hell-banned.
  - jonmrodriguez 13y ago
    It also probably doesn't help that the username "FuckFrankie" sounds aggressive / combative
- cpayne 13y ago
  If you honestly think you've been downvoted for "asking a question", take a moment to think about the type of question you asked and the way you asked it.

eloff 13y ago

TCP is actually extremely complex, see http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol I don't think I could implement it in under 4000 sloc, and I'd guess it'd be over two months worth of work for just a minimal TCP stack that could interoperate with the internet at large.

userbinator 13y ago
TCP is only complex because of all the optional bits for performance tuning, but if you are only interested in size, look on the embedded side. The actual core functionality is much smaller, and I would even go as far as to say that a lot of the widely used open-source TCP/IP stacks obfuscate this with their added complexities. E.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIP_(micro_IP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIP_(micro_IP)
- tptacek 13y ago
  Uh. No. TCP is complex because it works in the scenario where you, me, and 20 coworkers share a fast LAN hooked up to a slow pipe to the Internet and we all have to share that pipe constantly but nobody actually knows exactly who's trying to do what with it. TCP congestion control is a minor miracle even before you realize that this plays out writ large across the whole Internet, large-pipe-huge-pipe-small-pipe-big-pipe, without the Internet collapsing, which is what it used to do. One of the big challenges in designing fast scalable transports that gain speed by allowing drops or out of order delivery is in making them compatible with the congestion control regime that TCP implements. TCP is complex because it solves a mindbogglingly complex problem. That it is as small as it actually is makes it one of the more elegant things ever to come out of computer networking.
  - derefr 13y ago
    > One of the big challenges in designing fast scalable transports that gain speed by allowing drops or out of order delivery is in making them compatible with the congestion control regime that TCP implements. I would argue that this very thing makes TCP inelegant; congestion-control should really have been its own layer between IP and TCP, instead of being something that every protocol that's not UDP has to carefully reimplement.