9 ms·

Dear Jailbreak Community

138 points by cbabraham 13y ago

rubbingalcohol 13y ago
Am I the only one who thinks this makes evad3rs look even more shady? One example: they carefully avoid denying the presence of malware in their jailbreak. Instead, "We are saddened by the accusations that we would ever do such a thing, or sell weaponized exploits. If anyone ever attempted to include malware in a jailbreak, we are confident that the many security experts combing through jailbreak software would find it." The explanations about Saurik and piracy in their Chinese pals' app store comes off as similarly evasive.
rspeer 13y ago
Chrome seems to detect the encoding of this page wrong -- find the deeply-buried "Encoding" menu and set it to UTF-8 for more readability.
- breser 13y ago
  Chrome (and Firefox for that matter) are doing what they should be. The default encoding for HTTP is ISO-8859-1 and the Content-Type header doesn't specify a charset, so that is what the browsers are displaying it as.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
    Wow, why didn't they bother specifying? It's as simple as: <meta charset=utf-8>
  - rspeer 13y ago
    Well, like most things on the Web, they're not doing what the HTTP standard says, they're doing something related to what the standards say they should do but with some concessions to reality. Look at "We donâ€™t believe itâ€™s right". There's no Euro sign in ISO-8859-1. The Euro symbol was not even dreamed up when ISO-8859-1 was standardized. But there's a Euro sign -- retroactively -- in Windows-1252, and it's been a long-standing tradition among Web browsers to pretend ISO-8859-1 and Windows-1252 are equivalent even though in Unicode they clearly aren't. It's why you can write  and usually get the same ellipsis as …. So you can forgive me for expecting another long-standing tradition, which is to auto-detect encodings that aren't specified. Maybe browsers have stopped doing that. It's a bit of a loss when it comes to UTF-8, a clear choice for an encoding to try by default in 2013. Of course the page should ideally be written better, but that's a push and pull between HTML writers and browser developers that will never be over.
chengyinliu 13y ago
I do not believe that helping a Chinese company that is related to Qihoo360, which has a very bad ethical record will in anyway benefit the Chinese users. I also don't see how is this benefiting the jailbreak community, except for the compensation they took in.
- duiker101 13y ago
  One thing I don't understand... why do you think it is wrong for them to make money out of their work? I am not saying that what they did was good for the community but what if the alternative was not getting anything? They are still offering it for free...
  - chengyinliu 13y ago
    I don't think I said that it is wrong for them to take the money. It is more about who to take it from and what are they asked to do. They claimed including TaiG is good for the Chinese user and a positive thing for the jailbreak community. I personally don't think that's the case.
- songco 13y ago
  Their own app store have lots pirated apps and they have their own ad platform. e.g. One app publisher pay xM Chinese yuan for making their app to the top n in a app store.
schneidmaster 13y ago
This is interesting. The jailbreak community is a weird place on the edge of free software- normally, "just open source it" is an easy answer to security concerns, but there are understandable reasons not to open-source exploits. However, the whole competition thing between evad3rs and saurik seems kind of strange. Honestly, I wish Apple would just get with the times and allow an appropriate degree of freedom on their devices; even if evad3rs are as innocent as they claim in this instance, forcing users to install potentially sketchy obfuscated third-party system-level code in order to do basic things like set default apps seems like a recipe for eventual disaster.
- elboru 13y ago
  > but there are understandable reasons not to open-source exploits Legit question, What reasons could there be?
  - voltagex_ 13y ago
    Two of them come to mind: * They don't want the exploit "stolen" or reused by another party (for good or evil) * They don't want to make it too easy for Apple to patch it.
    - SquareWheel 13y ago
      This exploit was already patched by Apple in the next version, as far as I understand.
  - schneidmaster 13y ago
    Yeah, what voltagex said. Same reason you shouldn't open-source a zero day exploit on any website without responsibly disclosing it to the company and giving them a reasonable amount of time to patch it.
    - nwh 13y ago
      They've basically made it open to the world, Apple has worked out closed sourced jailbreaks before with no help. Jailbreaks like Star (jailbreak.me) were just a PDF binary with absolutely no clue as to the contents or method of exploitation.
rolleiflex 13y ago
Malware should be easy enough to detect by MiTMing the device, assuming the baseband is unmodified and cellular is shut down. (edit: no, it doesn't-- shouldn't post before I'm awake) I have just updated my phone and I have no traces of the chinese app store mentioned here, for what it's worth.
- nwh 13y ago
  No, you can not detect malware working like that. How do you know the data will be sent when you are looking, how do you know what the encoding will be? Maybe it exports your AppleID password by using the unused bit ("evil bit") in IPv4 packets, maybe it encodes your keychain into every screenshot you take, maybe it's using high frequency audio (haha) to send out copies of your photos when you're not looking. Treating the iPhone like a black box it would be impossible to deny the existence of malware, you can only confirm it's existence. Given that the evad3rs didn't even know what the binary they included with their exploits contained, we can assume that there's possibly a backdoor or two in there as well.
  - rolleiflex 13y ago
    Fair point, I didn't think it through very much. Jailbreak is inherently risky and the risk increases as the effort required to achieve becomes unsustainable without financial help.
bri3d 13y ago
I don't think this really helps evad3rs build credibility. They put a giant, user-facing blob payload into their jailbreak with no transparency about how it got there or what it is. Reading between the lines they were paid for it, but they don't even manage to come out and say that outright in this "letter." There's always some level of faith involved in installing an early iOS jailbreak, because exploits often aren't documented or open-sourced until long after their release (for a variety of reasons - vanity, ripoffs, weaponization, etc.). But at least most of the jailbreaks released in the past have been transparent and configurable. In the Dev Team jailbreaks, all userland packages were optional and if a user wanted, they could uncheck the "Install Cydia" box in the payload configuration, configure their own Cydia (because the source is open, imagine that!), or install a completely different set of user-land applications. Plus a variety of parties with various interests in the development community were given previous jailbreaks early, which provides at least a cursory level of auditing and sign-off. This evad3rs release offers none of these reassurances. I certainly wouldn't call any iOS jailbreak "trustworthy" in the truest sense but this one is definitely the worst so far.
- Macha 13y ago
  Just to point out that evad3rs are basically the core group within the iPhone Dev Team. I wouldn't really trust future Dev Team jailbreaks anymore either.
- comex 13y ago
  I think one point you are making is unfair. Many (most?) previous jailbreaks not named PwnageTool or redsn0w have had a single, non-configurable payload containing Cydia and various Unix tools, with the understanding that once it's installed, the user can use Cydia to do whatever they want. In the case of my jailbreaks (years ago), I don't remember anyone ever expressing a desire for an alternate payload, presumably for that reason. Of course there's a difference between Cydia and a closed source, less generally useful application that the jailbreakers were paid a large amount of money to include, but I wouldn't call it an issue of transparency/configurability as such.
  - bri3d 13y ago
RRRA 13y ago
I'm still baffled as to why someone would want to buy a locked up device and be forced to use frequent / complicated measures to be somewhat freed... I understand if you didn't get a choice at first, but I people realizing they are really stuck in a jail anyway, without any jailbreaks, might do more good than having them. (Though I encourage breaking things! ;)
- UVB-76 13y ago
  There are hundreds of millions of happy iPhone users out there. For the overwhelming majority of people, the restrictions on the device are not burdensome.
  - girvo 13y ago
    And for some of us, they are. So, people have different priorities, who knew?
  - reginaldjcooper 13y ago
    For many people the restrictions protect them from installing malware, and is a huge benefit. For the majority of us reading, I think we know enough to not install weird applications and the restrictions are incredibly burdensome.
- smtddr 13y ago
  Sometimes you buy it because you like the hardware and know the software is coming down the line. I've done this twice. - I bought an Android phone that had terrible reviews on Amazon come, knowing that there was a cyanogenmod ROM that'd solve everything. - I bought the new Kindle Fire HDX because I love the hardware design and knew a hack would show up for it eventually. Sure enough, the "put_user" kernel memory write exploit was found and now I have root on it. I'm sure cyanogenmod ROMs will be coming later on. Until then, I don't even use the HDX. Why didn't I just wait until the root showed up first before purchasing? Because updates to firmware might seal the exploit. So, just like I did with Sony PSP, it's best to get the hardware with early firmware and just never bring the device online for any updates. Just wait for the hack. My HDX still hasn't been exposed to the interwebz. That won't happen until Cyanogenmod is flashed on it. Until then, I'm still using my firstgen Kindle Fire. I bet some people bought an iPhone fully expecting that one day a jailbreak would show up.
saurik 13y ago
(This is what I said on Twitter in response.) So, yes: someone approached me with a potential jailbreak; the goal being to get a non-piracy-laden jailbreak out; this does not seem bad... ...in particular, I do not see how it is "backstabbing" @evad3rs (as some claim): it was unlikely to work, and was mostly just "having fun". Also, I am not part of @evad3rs: they made that very clear to me. They never told me anything about their exploit. Should I not help others? I guess now the argument is that if people come to me with a potential jailbreak, in order to not "backstab", I am not allowed to help them? Regardless, I gave the iOS 7 Substrate build to evad3rs on September 30th, and all I needed to test was a new copy of redsn0w (not evasi0n). I guess I don't understand "we really wanted TaiG's deal, so when we heard a rumor of an open jailbreak we were rushed: shame on saurik". :/
- Goopplesoft 13y ago
  Did they change the text? What I'm seeing is: > SaurikIT had been in talks with Chinese companies regarding potential partnerships, made a counteroffer. We believe they share our views on how a relationship with companies in China currently utilizing jailbreaking might benefit everyone in the community. Unfortunately, the negotiations did not work out. A few days later, we received information that SaurikIT was working with another group to release a jailbreak ahead of us. We decided to release, knowing that Cydia, MobileSubstrate, and jailbreak tweaks would be updated after a few days, just as it always has in the course of jailbreaking. Which seems honest and clear enough (financial incentives and potential loss of the contract motivated the release) without the whole "shame on saurik" thing.
  - saurik 13y ago
    My Twitter replies were filled with people angry at me for "backstabbing", I think largely caused by i0n1c's interpretation of the letter. > LOL now the @evad3rs say that @saurik backstabbed them and tried to release JB with other people. http://evasi0n.com/l.html http://evasi0n.com/l.html -- https://twitter.com/i0n1c/status/414859729081352192 https://twitter.com/i0n1c/status/414859729081352192
  - bri3d 13y ago
minimalist 13y ago
It doesn't seem like there has any response this: From @Hackl0us: "Taig also uploads users' private data to iphonespirit.com(belongs to Qihoo360 company). @iH8sn0w @pod2g @MuscleNerd @winocm"[0] Other sources: [1][2] [0]: https://twitter.com/Hackl0us/status/414835565524422656 https://twitter.com/Hackl0us/status/414835565524422656 [1]: https://twitter.com/JonathanSeals/status/414835993015894020 https://twitter.com/JonathanSeals/status/414835993015894020 [2]: http://bbs.weiphone.com/read-htm-tid-7417919.html http://bbs.weiphone.com/read-htm-tid-7417919.html
ChuckMcM 13y ago
I am not sure how to interpret this statement: "Yes, we have benefitted financially from our work, just as many others in the jailbreak community have, including tweak developers, repo owners, etc. Any jailbreak from us will always be free to the users but we believe we have a right to be compensated in an ethical way, just as any other developer. " In my world view people do work in exchange for money, there are two sets of people, people who make money through legal means, and people who make money through illegal means. On the border of those two realms are people who walk back and forth over the line between legal and illegal. If you're 'productizing' a jailbreak (nominally legal in some countries, illegal in others) the people you're going to get money from are the folks on the illegal side of the line. Given that world view you want to be compensated in an 'ethical way' by people who threw ethics out the window? That is what I have trouble with.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  It's almost certainly a copyright violation in the US, but is it illegal in China for a Chinese company to pay developers to modify another company's software for commercial gain? Another relevant question, would developers in another country be breaking their country's laws by accepting such work? Edit: note that I'm not intending to equate ethicality with legality.
  - berberous 13y ago
    How is this a copyright violation in the US? Or are you just talking about the fact that pirated apps seem to be on this Chinese app store?
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      AIUI, jailbreaking (or any modification of software) creates a derivative work, which is a right protected by copyright. In other areas of copyright law, it seems commercial uses are more stringently restricted than personal uses.
    - ChuckMcM 13y ago
      Nitrogen is correct, the fuzzyness in the US is around whether or not jailbreaking your own phone is a violation of the DMCA or not (ruled "no", then ruled "yes", not sure where it is at the moment), and then the contractual (civil vs non-civil) issues with running software on your phone without Apple's permission) It is that "grey" area, where folks can give themselves a credible story about how it is "perfectly legal" and so take the money. My point was that they are dealing with people who don't care if its legal or not. (remember they don't "charge" the end users, they charge the app store bundle guy). That guy (or gal) doesn't care about what is or is not legal, they care about money any way they can get it so that the person they got it from can't get it back. Period.
schneidmaster 13y ago
BTW, if anyone was going to post this to reddit, don't bother. I posted it to /r/technology and /r/apple but davidreiss666 removed both links with no explanation.
- glasshead969 13y ago
  r/jailbreak is proper place on reddit for relevant discussion.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
sarreph 13y ago
The justification of their actions, to renumerate developers for their work, is of course a sentiment of paramount importance. However, clearly, the way in which it was executed (bundling a questionable foreign App Store) wasn't the best, and in my opinion they should look to more interesting monetisation avenues than sponsorship.
killahpriest 13y ago
The status page on http://jailbrea.kr/ http://jailbrea.kr/ is hilarious: such jailbreak so drama wow tweak omg many piracy
nilved 13y ago
This site uses Cloudflare and I use Tor, so I can't view it. Could somebody mirror?
- jrockway 13y ago
  How about http://evasi0n.com.nyud.net/l.html http://evasi0n.com.nyud.net/l.html
Fire_30 13y ago
This situation sort of reminds me about the xbox scene, which now seems to mostly be about piracy and profit now, which sort of sucks..
songco 13y ago
TaiG is a pirated app distribution platform...
zhufenggood 13y ago
A chinese safety company named 360(http://360.cn)pay http://360.cn)pay $1000000 cash to evasi0n team buying cydia replace to taiji in china.

138 points by cbabraham 13y ago

Am I the only one who thinks this makes evad3rs look even more shady? One example: they carefully avoid denying the presence of malware in their jailbreak. Instead, "We are saddened by the accusations that we would ever do such a thing, or sell weaponized exploits. If anyone ever attempted to include malware in a jailbreak, we are confident that the many security experts combing through jailbreak software would find it." The explanations about Saurik and piracy in their Chinese pals' app store comes off as similarly evasive.

rspeer 13y ago

Chrome seems to detect the encoding of this page wrong -- find the deeply-buried "Encoding" menu and set it to UTF-8 for more readability.

breser 13y ago
Chrome (and Firefox for that matter) are doing what they should be. The default encoding for HTTP is ISO-8859-1 and the Content-Type header doesn't specify a charset, so that is what the browsers are displaying it as.
- TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
  Wow, why didn't they bother specifying? It's as simple as: <meta charset=utf-8>
- rspeer 13y ago
  Well, like most things on the Web, they're not doing what the HTTP standard says, they're doing something related to what the standards say they should do but with some concessions to reality. Look at "We donâ€™t believe itâ€™s right". There's no Euro sign in ISO-8859-1. The Euro symbol was not even dreamed up when ISO-8859-1 was standardized. But there's a Euro sign -- retroactively -- in Windows-1252, and it's been a long-standing tradition among Web browsers to pretend ISO-8859-1 and Windows-1252 are equivalent even though in Unicode they clearly aren't. It's why you can write  and usually get the same ellipsis as …. So you can forgive me for expecting another long-standing tradition, which is to auto-detect encodings that aren't specified. Maybe browsers have stopped doing that. It's a bit of a loss when it comes to UTF-8, a clear choice for an encoding to try by default in 2013. Of course the page should ideally be written better, but that's a push and pull between HTML writers and browser developers that will never be over.

chengyinliu 13y ago

I do not believe that helping a Chinese company that is related to Qihoo360, which has a very bad ethical record will in anyway benefit the Chinese users. I also don't see how is this benefiting the jailbreak community, except for the compensation they took in.

duiker101 13y ago
One thing I don't understand... why do you think it is wrong for them to make money out of their work? I am not saying that what they did was good for the community but what if the alternative was not getting anything? They are still offering it for free...
- chengyinliu 13y ago
  I don't think I said that it is wrong for them to take the money. It is more about who to take it from and what are they asked to do. They claimed including TaiG is good for the Chinese user and a positive thing for the jailbreak community. I personally don't think that's the case.
songco 13y ago
Their own app store have lots pirated apps and they have their own ad platform. e.g. One app publisher pay xM Chinese yuan for making their app to the top n in a app store.

schneidmaster 13y ago

This is interesting. The jailbreak community is a weird place on the edge of free software- normally, "just open source it" is an easy answer to security concerns, but there are understandable reasons not to open-source exploits. However, the whole competition thing between evad3rs and saurik seems kind of strange. Honestly, I wish Apple would just get with the times and allow an appropriate degree of freedom on their devices; even if evad3rs are as innocent as they claim in this instance, forcing users to install potentially sketchy obfuscated third-party system-level code in order to do basic things like set default apps seems like a recipe for eventual disaster.

elboru 13y ago
> but there are understandable reasons not to open-source exploits Legit question, What reasons could there be?
- voltagex_ 13y ago
  Two of them come to mind: * They don't want the exploit "stolen" or reused by another party (for good or evil) * They don't want to make it too easy for Apple to patch it.
  - SquareWheel 13y ago
    This exploit was already patched by Apple in the next version, as far as I understand.
- schneidmaster 13y ago
  Yeah, what voltagex said. Same reason you shouldn't open-source a zero day exploit on any website without responsibly disclosing it to the company and giving them a reasonable amount of time to patch it.
  - nwh 13y ago
    They've basically made it open to the world, Apple has worked out closed sourced jailbreaks before with no help. Jailbreaks like Star (jailbreak.me) were just a PDF binary with absolutely no clue as to the contents or method of exploitation.

rolleiflex 13y ago

Malware should be easy enough to detect by MiTMing the device, assuming the baseband is unmodified and cellular is shut down. (edit: no, it doesn't-- shouldn't post before I'm awake) I have just updated my phone and I have no traces of the chinese app store mentioned here, for what it's worth.

nwh 13y ago
No, you can not detect malware working like that. How do you know the data will be sent when you are looking, how do you know what the encoding will be? Maybe it exports your AppleID password by using the unused bit ("evil bit") in IPv4 packets, maybe it encodes your keychain into every screenshot you take, maybe it's using high frequency audio (haha) to send out copies of your photos when you're not looking. Treating the iPhone like a black box it would be impossible to deny the existence of malware, you can only confirm it's existence. Given that the evad3rs didn't even know what the binary they included with their exploits contained, we can assume that there's possibly a backdoor or two in there as well.
- rolleiflex 13y ago
  Fair point, I didn't think it through very much. Jailbreak is inherently risky and the risk increases as the effort required to achieve becomes unsustainable without financial help.

bri3d 13y ago

I don't think this really helps evad3rs build credibility. They put a giant, user-facing blob payload into their jailbreak with no transparency about how it got there or what it is. Reading between the lines they were paid for it, but they don't even manage to come out and say that outright in this "letter." There's always some level of faith involved in installing an early iOS jailbreak, because exploits often aren't documented or open-sourced until long after their release (for a variety of reasons - vanity, ripoffs, weaponization, etc.). But at least most of the jailbreaks released in the past have been transparent and configurable. In the Dev Team jailbreaks, all userland packages were optional and if a user wanted, they could uncheck the "Install Cydia" box in the payload configuration, configure their own Cydia (because the source is open, imagine that!), or install a completely different set of user-land applications. Plus a variety of parties with various interests in the development community were given previous jailbreaks early, which provides at least a cursory level of auditing and sign-off. This evad3rs release offers none of these reassurances. I certainly wouldn't call any iOS jailbreak "trustworthy" in the truest sense but this one is definitely the worst so far.

Macha 13y ago
Just to point out that evad3rs are basically the core group within the iPhone Dev Team. I wouldn't really trust future Dev Team jailbreaks anymore either.
comex 13y ago
I think one point you are making is unfair. Many (most?) previous jailbreaks not named PwnageTool or redsn0w have had a single, non-configurable payload containing Cydia and various Unix tools, with the understanding that once it's installed, the user can use Cydia to do whatever they want. In the case of my jailbreaks (years ago), I don't remember anyone ever expressing a desire for an alternate payload, presumably for that reason. Of course there's a difference between Cydia and a closed source, less generally useful application that the jailbreakers were paid a large amount of money to include, but I wouldn't call it an issue of transparency/configurability as such.
- bri3d 13y ago

RRRA 13y ago

I'm still baffled as to why someone would want to buy a locked up device and be forced to use frequent / complicated measures to be somewhat freed... I understand if you didn't get a choice at first, but I people realizing they are really stuck in a jail anyway, without any jailbreaks, might do more good than having them. (Though I encourage breaking things! ;)

UVB-76 13y ago
There are hundreds of millions of happy iPhone users out there. For the overwhelming majority of people, the restrictions on the device are not burdensome.
- girvo 13y ago
  And for some of us, they are. So, people have different priorities, who knew?
- reginaldjcooper 13y ago
  For many people the restrictions protect them from installing malware, and is a huge benefit. For the majority of us reading, I think we know enough to not install weird applications and the restrictions are incredibly burdensome.
smtddr 13y ago
Sometimes you buy it because you like the hardware and know the software is coming down the line. I've done this twice. - I bought an Android phone that had terrible reviews on Amazon come, knowing that there was a cyanogenmod ROM that'd solve everything. - I bought the new Kindle Fire HDX because I love the hardware design and knew a hack would show up for it eventually. Sure enough, the "put_user" kernel memory write exploit was found and now I have root on it. I'm sure cyanogenmod ROMs will be coming later on. Until then, I don't even use the HDX. Why didn't I just wait until the root showed up first before purchasing? Because updates to firmware might seal the exploit. So, just like I did with Sony PSP, it's best to get the hardware with early firmware and just never bring the device online for any updates. Just wait for the hack. My HDX still hasn't been exposed to the interwebz. That won't happen until Cyanogenmod is flashed on it. Until then, I'm still using my firstgen Kindle Fire. I bet some people bought an iPhone fully expecting that one day a jailbreak would show up.

saurik 13y ago

(This is what I said on Twitter in response.) So, yes: someone approached me with a potential jailbreak; the goal being to get a non-piracy-laden jailbreak out; this does not seem bad... ...in particular, I do not see how it is "backstabbing" @evad3rs (as some claim): it was unlikely to work, and was mostly just "having fun". Also, I am not part of @evad3rs: they made that very clear to me. They never told me anything about their exploit. Should I not help others? I guess now the argument is that if people come to me with a potential jailbreak, in order to not "backstab", I am not allowed to help them? Regardless, I gave the iOS 7 Substrate build to evad3rs on September 30th, and all I needed to test was a new copy of redsn0w (not evasi0n). I guess I don't understand "we really wanted TaiG's deal, so when we heard a rumor of an open jailbreak we were rushed: shame on saurik". :/

Goopplesoft 13y ago
Did they change the text? What I'm seeing is: > SaurikIT had been in talks with Chinese companies regarding potential partnerships, made a counteroffer. We believe they share our views on how a relationship with companies in China currently utilizing jailbreaking might benefit everyone in the community. Unfortunately, the negotiations did not work out. A few days later, we received information that SaurikIT was working with another group to release a jailbreak ahead of us. We decided to release, knowing that Cydia, MobileSubstrate, and jailbreak tweaks would be updated after a few days, just as it always has in the course of jailbreaking. Which seems honest and clear enough (financial incentives and potential loss of the contract motivated the release) without the whole "shame on saurik" thing.
- saurik 13y ago
  My Twitter replies were filled with people angry at me for "backstabbing", I think largely caused by i0n1c's interpretation of the letter. > LOL now the @evad3rs say that @saurik backstabbed them and tried to release JB with other people. http://evasi0n.com/l.html http://evasi0n.com/l.html -- https://twitter.com/i0n1c/status/414859729081352192 https://twitter.com/i0n1c/status/414859729081352192
- bri3d 13y ago

minimalist 13y ago

It doesn't seem like there has any response this: From @Hackl0us: "Taig also uploads users' private data to iphonespirit.com(belongs to Qihoo360 company). @iH8sn0w @pod2g @MuscleNerd @winocm"[0] Other sources: [1][2] [0]: https://twitter.com/Hackl0us/status/414835565524422656 https://twitter.com/Hackl0us/status/414835565524422656 [1]: https://twitter.com/JonathanSeals/status/414835993015894020 https://twitter.com/JonathanSeals/status/414835993015894020 [2]: http://bbs.weiphone.com/read-htm-tid-7417919.html http://bbs.weiphone.com/read-htm-tid-7417919.html

ChuckMcM 13y ago

I am not sure how to interpret this statement: "Yes, we have benefitted financially from our work, just as many others in the jailbreak community have, including tweak developers, repo owners, etc. Any jailbreak from us will always be free to the users but we believe we have a right to be compensated in an ethical way, just as any other developer. " In my world view people do work in exchange for money, there are two sets of people, people who make money through legal means, and people who make money through illegal means. On the border of those two realms are people who walk back and forth over the line between legal and illegal. If you're 'productizing' a jailbreak (nominally legal in some countries, illegal in others) the people you're going to get money from are the folks on the illegal side of the line. Given that world view you want to be compensated in an 'ethical way' by people who threw ethics out the window? That is what I have trouble with.

nitrogen 13y ago
It's almost certainly a copyright violation in the US, but is it illegal in China for a Chinese company to pay developers to modify another company's software for commercial gain? Another relevant question, would developers in another country be breaking their country's laws by accepting such work? Edit: note that I'm not intending to equate ethicality with legality.
- berberous 13y ago
  How is this a copyright violation in the US? Or are you just talking about the fact that pirated apps seem to be on this Chinese app store?
  - nitrogen 13y ago
    AIUI, jailbreaking (or any modification of software) creates a derivative work, which is a right protected by copyright. In other areas of copyright law, it seems commercial uses are more stringently restricted than personal uses.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    Nitrogen is correct, the fuzzyness in the US is around whether or not jailbreaking your own phone is a violation of the DMCA or not (ruled "no", then ruled "yes", not sure where it is at the moment), and then the contractual (civil vs non-civil) issues with running software on your phone without Apple's permission) It is that "grey" area, where folks can give themselves a credible story about how it is "perfectly legal" and so take the money. My point was that they are dealing with people who don't care if its legal or not. (remember they don't "charge" the end users, they charge the app store bundle guy). That guy (or gal) doesn't care about what is or is not legal, they care about money any way they can get it so that the person they got it from can't get it back. Period.

schneidmaster 13y ago

BTW, if anyone was going to post this to reddit, don't bother. I posted it to /r/technology and /r/apple but davidreiss666 removed both links with no explanation.

glasshead969 13y ago
r/jailbreak is proper place on reddit for relevant discussion.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

sarreph 13y ago

The justification of their actions, to renumerate developers for their work, is of course a sentiment of paramount importance. However, clearly, the way in which it was executed (bundling a questionable foreign App Store) wasn't the best, and in my opinion they should look to more interesting monetisation avenues than sponsorship.

killahpriest 13y ago

The status page on http://jailbrea.kr/ http://jailbrea.kr/ is hilarious: such jailbreak so drama wow tweak omg many piracy

nilved 13y ago

This site uses Cloudflare and I use Tor, so I can't view it. Could somebody mirror?

jrockway 13y ago
How about http://evasi0n.com.nyud.net/l.html http://evasi0n.com.nyud.net/l.html

Fire_30 13y ago

This situation sort of reminds me about the xbox scene, which now seems to mostly be about piracy and profit now, which sort of sucks..

songco 13y ago

TaiG is a pirated app distribution platform...

zhufenggood 13y ago

A chinese safety company named 360(http://360.cn)pay http://360.cn)pay $1000000 cash to evasi0n team buying cydia replace to taiji in china.