4 ms·

A few things (I'm the author of InfiniSQL) 1) I include keystore-like stored procedures in the source. They do get/set with integer key and string val. I haven

by mtravis 13y ago

A few things (I'm the author of InfiniSQL) 1) I include keystore-like stored procedures in the source. They do get/set with integer key and string val. I haven't done thorough benchmarking, but I expect them to outperform the other benchmark I've published, which is quite a bit more complex workload 2) (camus2) agreed, nothing ever dies in IT. But roll back the clock a few years. How much noSQL would come into exisence if there was a free xzySQL that scaled across nodes, was fast, etc. I believe the answer is that there'd be very few network-based noSQL for operational workloads if that had been the case. 3) jwatte: Yeah! Jagged edges too! 4) stephen24: Also, I intend to change the license from AGPL to GPL next time I push out some code. No excuse not to try it out. 5) siliconc0w: There's an architectural write-up at High Scalability: http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/11/25/how-to-make-an-infinitely-scalable-relational-database-manag.html http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/11/25/how-to-make-an-in... -- I believe that the actor model architecture is distinct in InfiniSQL. 6) diwu1989: Yes and no. Yes, MemSQL is more mature. No, (a) I'm not sure how MemSQL scales horizontally (especially since that was a feature added after v1 of their code was released), and, (b) MemSQL isn't free software 7) itsbits: for now InfiniSQL is mainly for hackers and early adopters--the dependencies are pretty clearly documented but it requires some effort to work with in its current state

jsmthrowaway 13y ago
Please consider the Apache License or some other license instead of the GPL. There are many organizations that cannot use any flavor of GPL, including LGPL, for legal reasons. You can debate the wisdom of that amongst yourselves, but alas, that's how it is in some places. (And I really want to try this...)
- mtravis 13y ago
  I assume these shops have Linux in their environments, including the GNU toolchain. There must be some contradiction somewhere that I'm not aware of. Based on FSF feedback, I'm going to modify the license to include a Classpath-like exception. The intention is to allow people to write stored procedures that link against infinisql without triggering the copyleft. Only if the source to infinisql itself is modified (and distributed) will the copyleft apply. I'm curious to know the rationale against the GPL in general (not just the AGPL), and how those shops allow Linux & gnu toolchains in spite of their rule against the GPL.
  - philwelch 13y ago
    Generally, Linux and the GNU toolchain are carefully managed exceptions and there is massive commercial pressure against continuing to use anything GPL-licensed. Linux itself is strong enough to hold out against this pressure, but other things like GCC are not, which is why there is so much work being invested into LLVM/Clang.
    - DannyBee 13y ago
      "massive commercial pressure against continuing to use anything GPL-licensed" I actually generally see just the opposite - even automakers, who are traditionally stalwarts about anything, are now starting to use GPL software in cars. "which is why there is so much work being invested into LLVM/Clang" This is a weird opinion, that i've seen a few times. This is not why LLVM was/is chosen, AFAIK. LLVM was/is chosen for greater control over destiny, a better platform, and a better community. If LLVM was GPL there is exactly one company that would theoretically stop contributing (admittedly, it's been about 2 months since i calculated the list of companies that contributed in the past year). I doubt that would actually happen, too (mainly because I asked once if they would) I was just at an LLVM social this evening, and not a single person there worked for a company that chose LLVM because of "massive commercial pressure against the GPL".
      - stormbrew 13y ago
        Considering the adoption of llvm and clang came with a freezing of the version of gcc used/distributed by Apple to a version before a particularly notable GPL version (among other GNU projects being similarly frozen, like bash) was applied to it, it would take a hell of an alternate explanation to dislodge the notion that Apple's endorsement of the project wasn't significantly related to licensing.
        DannyBee 13y ago
        This is an interesting rewrite of history. Chris gave a presentation at Apple and told them he could make a better compiler[1], and they hired him to work on LLVM (plus started to grow his team) well before they decided to stop contributing to GCC. There used to be parallel teams, each with about the same number of people. Hell, for a while, the LLVM team had less. Apple was frustrated they couldn't get what they wanted out of GCC, and were getting patches and designs constantly rejected. This, combined with getting control over their destiny, and having serious needs for a modular compiler frontend for XCode (and their design for a compiler server/etc for GCC got shot down), plus Chris demonstrating good performance results + trajectory, led to them choosing LLVM. But what do I know - I was there, in both communities, talking to the people who were involved in these decisions. Realistically, if the SVP/VP in charge of Apple's developer tools had decided GCC was still the way to go, they would be working on GCC, GPLv3 policy or not. Policies are not an end unto themselves. All of this is completely orthogonal to the freezing of the GCC version. They could get what they wanted out of it in the pre-GPLv3 versions, given their future plans were LLVM based anyway, so they didn't make an exception for GCC when they banned GPLv3. Of course, I'm not going to claim that apple didn't do other things more for licensing reasons, which a lot of can be explained by the desire to be able to share code between OS X and IOS in some places (and eventually, in a lot of places), and GPLv3 would have disastrous effects if they messed up. They calculated the eng cost, came up with "we have good alternatives, and can rewrite the rest", and did that, and banned GPLv3. However, they were making exceptions for years for certain pieces of software already. So if you had chosen any other example than LLVM, i'd probably agree with you. LLVM is just not a great example of "commercial pushback against GPL". Apple's dropping of Samba would be a good example, since that is directly the reason they dropped Samba. [1] One of my GCC friends walked out of this presentation complaining that he was selling them a bill of goods. Of course, he turned out to be wrong, but ...
- zobzu 13y ago
  So many reasons to keep GPL. They can use GPL just fine, it's just that they don't wanna contribute if they modify it.
  - justin66 13y ago
    > So many reasons to keep GPL. They can use GPL just fine, it's just that they don't wanna contribute if they modify it. More charitably, they don't want to be _legally obligated_ to contribute if they modify it.
- DannyBee 13y ago
  "There are many organizations that cannot use any flavor of GPL, including LGPL, for legal reasons" To be clear, there are no legal reasons I can think of that would ever prevent internal use of LGPL/GPL software. You mean these companies (Apple, for example) have policies. Policies like this often change because someone decides the cost vs risk tradeoff is worth it. Changing a license because of bad policies of certain companies is not a great reason to change a license (in fact, it's, IMHO, an actively bad one). You really should only change licenses if you find the license you chose does not suit the needs of your users (and policies are not really needs).
  - philwelch 13y ago
    I find that to be a strangely ideological response. Your prospective users' requirements are up to them to decide, not up to you. They're the ones who are going to decide whether or not to use your software.
    - DannyBee 13y ago
      ?? Of course they are up to the users to decide, but policies and needs are different. I'm curious, how do you think policies like this change? Most of the developers i've seen will happily sell you a commercial license if you don't like the software. After paying for it enough, most companies start to ask "well, actually, how risky is this, really?", and this is how policies change. In any case, my other point stands - there are no actual legal reasons to not use LGPL/GPL software internally. It would have zero legal impact.
      - philwelch 13y ago
        If InfiniSQL was an established incumbent where the choice was between living with GPL and buying a commercial license I would agree with you, but it's a newcomer where the main choice is whether to use it at all.
tintor 13y ago
Regarding MemSQL: - we have just released v2.5 with full support for JSON and online ALTER TABLE across cluster - MemSQL performs great on both OLAP and OLTP - it scales well: we have several hundred node cluster in production at Zynga - license cost for startups is $1
- mtravis 13y ago
  Congratulations! Do you have benchmark reports?

by mtravis 13y ago

jsmthrowaway 13y ago

Please consider the Apache License or some other license instead of the GPL. There are many organizations that cannot use any flavor of GPL, including LGPL, for legal reasons. You can debate the wisdom of that amongst yourselves, but alas, that's how it is in some places. (And I really want to try this...)

mtravis 13y ago
I assume these shops have Linux in their environments, including the GNU toolchain. There must be some contradiction somewhere that I'm not aware of. Based on FSF feedback, I'm going to modify the license to include a Classpath-like exception. The intention is to allow people to write stored procedures that link against infinisql without triggering the copyleft. Only if the source to infinisql itself is modified (and distributed) will the copyleft apply. I'm curious to know the rationale against the GPL in general (not just the AGPL), and how those shops allow Linux & gnu toolchains in spite of their rule against the GPL.
- philwelch 13y ago
  Generally, Linux and the GNU toolchain are carefully managed exceptions and there is massive commercial pressure against continuing to use anything GPL-licensed. Linux itself is strong enough to hold out against this pressure, but other things like GCC are not, which is why there is so much work being invested into LLVM/Clang.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    "massive commercial pressure against continuing to use anything GPL-licensed" I actually generally see just the opposite - even automakers, who are traditionally stalwarts about anything, are now starting to use GPL software in cars. "which is why there is so much work being invested into LLVM/Clang" This is a weird opinion, that i've seen a few times. This is not why LLVM was/is chosen, AFAIK. LLVM was/is chosen for greater control over destiny, a better platform, and a better community. If LLVM was GPL there is exactly one company that would theoretically stop contributing (admittedly, it's been about 2 months since i calculated the list of companies that contributed in the past year). I doubt that would actually happen, too (mainly because I asked once if they would) I was just at an LLVM social this evening, and not a single person there worked for a company that chose LLVM because of "massive commercial pressure against the GPL".
    - stormbrew 13y ago
      Considering the adoption of llvm and clang came with a freezing of the version of gcc used/distributed by Apple to a version before a particularly notable GPL version (among other GNU projects being similarly frozen, like bash) was applied to it, it would take a hell of an alternate explanation to dislodge the notion that Apple's endorsement of the project wasn't significantly related to licensing.
      - DannyBee 13y ago
        This is an interesting rewrite of history. Chris gave a presentation at Apple and told them he could make a better compiler[1], and they hired him to work on LLVM (plus started to grow his team) well before they decided to stop contributing to GCC. There used to be parallel teams, each with about the same number of people. Hell, for a while, the LLVM team had less. Apple was frustrated they couldn't get what they wanted out of GCC, and were getting patches and designs constantly rejected. This, combined with getting control over their destiny, and having serious needs for a modular compiler frontend for XCode (and their design for a compiler server/etc for GCC got shot down), plus Chris demonstrating good performance results + trajectory, led to them choosing LLVM. But what do I know - I was there, in both communities, talking to the people who were involved in these decisions. Realistically, if the SVP/VP in charge of Apple's developer tools had decided GCC was still the way to go, they would be working on GCC, GPLv3 policy or not. Policies are not an end unto themselves. All of this is completely orthogonal to the freezing of the GCC version. They could get what they wanted out of it in the pre-GPLv3 versions, given their future plans were LLVM based anyway, so they didn't make an exception for GCC when they banned GPLv3. Of course, I'm not going to claim that apple didn't do other things more for licensing reasons, which a lot of can be explained by the desire to be able to share code between OS X and IOS in some places (and eventually, in a lot of places), and GPLv3 would have disastrous effects if they messed up. They calculated the eng cost, came up with "we have good alternatives, and can rewrite the rest", and did that, and banned GPLv3. However, they were making exceptions for years for certain pieces of software already. So if you had chosen any other example than LLVM, i'd probably agree with you. LLVM is just not a great example of "commercial pushback against GPL". Apple's dropping of Samba would be a good example, since that is directly the reason they dropped Samba. [1] One of my GCC friends walked out of this presentation complaining that he was selling them a bill of goods. Of course, he turned out to be wrong, but ...
zobzu 13y ago
So many reasons to keep GPL. They can use GPL just fine, it's just that they don't wanna contribute if they modify it.
- justin66 13y ago
  > So many reasons to keep GPL. They can use GPL just fine, it's just that they don't wanna contribute if they modify it. More charitably, they don't want to be _legally obligated_ to contribute if they modify it.
DannyBee 13y ago
"There are many organizations that cannot use any flavor of GPL, including LGPL, for legal reasons" To be clear, there are no legal reasons I can think of that would ever prevent internal use of LGPL/GPL software. You mean these companies (Apple, for example) have policies. Policies like this often change because someone decides the cost vs risk tradeoff is worth it. Changing a license because of bad policies of certain companies is not a great reason to change a license (in fact, it's, IMHO, an actively bad one). You really should only change licenses if you find the license you chose does not suit the needs of your users (and policies are not really needs).
- philwelch 13y ago
  I find that to be a strangely ideological response. Your prospective users' requirements are up to them to decide, not up to you. They're the ones who are going to decide whether or not to use your software.
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    ?? Of course they are up to the users to decide, but policies and needs are different. I'm curious, how do you think policies like this change? Most of the developers i've seen will happily sell you a commercial license if you don't like the software. After paying for it enough, most companies start to ask "well, actually, how risky is this, really?", and this is how policies change. In any case, my other point stands - there are no actual legal reasons to not use LGPL/GPL software internally. It would have zero legal impact.
    - philwelch 13y ago
      If InfiniSQL was an established incumbent where the choice was between living with GPL and buying a commercial license I would agree with you, but it's a newcomer where the main choice is whether to use it at all.

tintor 13y ago

Regarding MemSQL: - we have just released v2.5 with full support for JSON and online ALTER TABLE across cluster - MemSQL performs great on both OLAP and OLTP - it scales well: we have several hundred node cluster in production at Zynga - license cost for startups is $1

mtravis 13y ago
Congratulations! Do you have benchmark reports?