7 ms·

tl;dr: how to be a good robot.

bqe 13y ago
You really think that taking an oath to be morally responsible for what you create and how you create it is being a robot? What a ridiculous thing to say.
- AsymetricCom 13y ago
  Interesting how the wiki version of the "Obligation of the Engineer"^1 seems to speak toward being a good steward of technology, humanity and public resources where the oath the OP quotes is more focused on delivering a good product and being obligated to do so by your pay. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Engineer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Engineer
  - saraid216 13y ago
    Um. It talks about fair wages. How is that being obligated to do so by your pay?
    - AsymetricCom 13y ago
      It really depends on the context you read it in and how you define some of the key words.
      - saraid216 13y ago
        So... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0
        AsymetricCom 13y ago
        So?
- diydsp 13y ago
  An important note here: "Moral" does not refer to a singular set of values, behaviors or beliefs. It only refers to a moral system, any moral system. That is why that oath the PP carries around from morning till night is "moral", yet does nothing to encourage the larger ramifications of their work, such as ecology, human rights, etc. It's only one moral system, not one which respects others' rights (beyond efficacious contractual obligatoin), etc.
_Adam 13y ago
How to build a good robot, you mean. If you want to be a robot, you need a lot of practice. Walking that way is surprisingly hard.
kyzyl 13y ago
No. How to be a responsible engineer who doesn't get people killed. There are situations in life that require one to grow the fuck up, and being a professional engineer is one of them.
- benched 13y ago
  This is the second time in as many days that I've seen a position reduced to "You're like a kid, and I'm like a grown-up." Cool argument. edit: I hereby coin The Argument From Maturity - of which the simplest prototype is, "Grow up."
  - kyzyl 13y ago
    Equivocating taking the engineer's oath with being a 'good robot' is childish, at best. I could also call it ignorant, or perhaps on its to criminal (if somebody truly believes that and puts it into practice). The engineer's oath towards ethical practice is precisely about not being a robot. We have specifications, years of technical brainwashing in school, and employment imperatives to make us into robots. Ethical practice is about having a watchdog thread in your brain that monitors your situation as an engineer. When a situation comes up where you could be a robot and do something stupid/illegal/dangerous/corrupt, the hope is that you can invoke your ethical/moral compass and make the right choice. Hopefully your compass is better calibrated than some unnamed folks in this thread. You want to talk about reducing a position simplistically? How about taking the backbone of a healthy engineering infrastructure, one which everybody relies on and must trust, and equating its core values to being a 'good robot'. I'm not reducing that person's position, I'm defending the position of the person who understands what they're talking about. So, yes, I reiterate to anyone who agrees with the OP: grow up. Or better yet, don't be a god damn engineer.
    - frenchy 13y ago
      > The engineer's oath towards ethical practice is precisely about not being a robot. How so? I didn't get that at all from the oath.

bqe 13y ago

You really think that taking an oath to be morally responsible for what you create and how you create it is being a robot? What a ridiculous thing to say.

AsymetricCom 13y ago
Interesting how the wiki version of the "Obligation of the Engineer"^1 seems to speak toward being a good steward of technology, humanity and public resources where the oath the OP quotes is more focused on delivering a good product and being obligated to do so by your pay. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Engineer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Engineer
- saraid216 13y ago
  Um. It talks about fair wages. How is that being obligated to do so by your pay?
  - AsymetricCom 13y ago
    It really depends on the context you read it in and how you define some of the key words.
    - saraid216 13y ago
      So... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0
      - AsymetricCom 13y ago
        So?
diydsp 13y ago
An important note here: "Moral" does not refer to a singular set of values, behaviors or beliefs. It only refers to a moral system, any moral system. That is why that oath the PP carries around from morning till night is "moral", yet does nothing to encourage the larger ramifications of their work, such as ecology, human rights, etc. It's only one moral system, not one which respects others' rights (beyond efficacious contractual obligatoin), etc.

_Adam 13y ago

How to build a good robot, you mean. If you want to be a robot, you need a lot of practice. Walking that way is surprisingly hard.

kyzyl 13y ago

No. How to be a responsible engineer who doesn't get people killed. There are situations in life that require one to grow the fuck up, and being a professional engineer is one of them.

benched 13y ago
This is the second time in as many days that I've seen a position reduced to "You're like a kid, and I'm like a grown-up." Cool argument. edit: I hereby coin The Argument From Maturity - of which the simplest prototype is, "Grow up."
- kyzyl 13y ago
  Equivocating taking the engineer's oath with being a 'good robot' is childish, at best. I could also call it ignorant, or perhaps on its to criminal (if somebody truly believes that and puts it into practice). The engineer's oath towards ethical practice is precisely about not being a robot. We have specifications, years of technical brainwashing in school, and employment imperatives to make us into robots. Ethical practice is about having a watchdog thread in your brain that monitors your situation as an engineer. When a situation comes up where you could be a robot and do something stupid/illegal/dangerous/corrupt, the hope is that you can invoke your ethical/moral compass and make the right choice. Hopefully your compass is better calibrated than some unnamed folks in this thread. You want to talk about reducing a position simplistically? How about taking the backbone of a healthy engineering infrastructure, one which everybody relies on and must trust, and equating its core values to being a 'good robot'. I'm not reducing that person's position, I'm defending the position of the person who understands what they're talking about. So, yes, I reiterate to anyone who agrees with the OP: grow up. Or better yet, don't be a god damn engineer.
  - frenchy 13y ago
    > The engineer's oath towards ethical practice is precisely about not being a robot. How so? I didn't get that at all from the oath.