7 ms·

except women and men aren't the only genders in tech/the english language, and just switching between "he" and "she" is still non-inclusive of them.

Tohhou 13y ago
There are human genders other than male and female? Scientific or imaginary?
- gruntmaster9000 13y ago
  Gender != sex.
  - Tohhou 13y ago
    Gender is the grammar layer above sex. Sex informs gender. Gender is not a purely social construct out of nowhere. In English, there is the ternary, but it is defined as without the male/female. People generally don't like being called it though. Even if they have a special snowflake prounoun such as xer which they prefer the rest of the world can't know this and so it is fair and reasonable to call them what they look like they most identify out of the binary. Or we can just stop using pronouns altogether, even in industries largely of men, because we wouldn't want to make it seem like women can't take part in them (even when there is nothing stopping them). I'd be fine with that. Men don't exist anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender
    - gruntmaster9000 13y ago
      You are confusing grammatical gender with gender identity. It is also informed by sex, but that is only one influence.
      - Tohhou 13y ago
        >It is also informed by sex, but that is only one influence. Right, so it's not fair to say that gender != sex when gender is the grammatical expression of a sex within an environment's constraints. >You are confusing grammatical gender with gender identity. The grammar is the expression of masculine and feminine, which vary based on constraints, but still stick to the sexual binary. Going beyond that is special snowflake territory where people invent their own thing to be unique while expecting to be taken seriously. Complaining that people don't use your preferred pronoun is a perfect case for first world problems. My original comment you replied to "There are human genders other than male and female? Scientific or imaginary?" All else other than male (primary masculine) and female (primary feminine) are imaginary, and not based on biological reality. Those things do not merit being taken seriously no more than any religion or superstition. Male and female based sexes will always be re-expressed in very similar ways, as they have all over the world in varying civilizations, while others will never be the same. I'ts the same as religions or ideologies. It is complete fabrication of the mind. If people want to invent new identities fine, but white washing away him and her so that all of the other newly minted pronouns don't feel left out is ridiculous. >Hi, I'm Caramelkh. I'm demisexual, polyromantic, fat positive genderqueer (neutrois, femme presenting), sexual assault survivor (7 times), native American, Muslim neuroatypical with OCD, cotard delusion, trimethylaminuria, social phobias, depression, post traumatic stress, anxiety issues and I can't walk very far. On my blog I will NOT tolerate any form of oppressive bullshit language and I will not hesitate to call you out on it. My preferred pronouns are ze/zy/zo/zum. After reading my about me section above, you still know nothing about me other than that the long list of labels means I get to have experienced nearly every type of kyriarchy oppression and so I can call people out on anything and say it triggers and offends me. If people get bored, I invent new oppressions. I'm triggered by the color teal. Or better yet the new thing of people insisting to be called only by the pronoun brony.
        gruntmaster9000 13y ago
        Gender identity is not at all the “grammatical expression of a sex within an environment’s constraints”. It is ‘a person's sense of self as a member of a particular gender.‘ — http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gender_identity http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gender_identity > All else other than male (primary masculine) and female (primary feminine) are imaginary, and not based on biological reality. Those things do not merit being taken seriously no more than any religion or superstition. Complete and utter bullshit, evidenced by how the ideas of “masculine” and “feminine” vary between and even within societies. These ideas are hardly the same “all over the world in varying civilizations”. Please, please read the Wikipedia article on Gender Identity, especially the section on non-western gender identities. It is such a different concept than classifying nouns. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#Non-Western_gender_identities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#Non-Western_gen... * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender Even grammatical gender is hardly consistent or strict with its being informed by sex. In Spanish, a man’s shirt would still be “la camisa”, a feminine noun. A female cheetah would still be called “el guepardo”. This insistence on adhering to biological sex — which itself isn’t even always binary — as a strict basis for gender makes no sense.

Tohhou 13y ago

There are human genders other than male and female? Scientific or imaginary?

gruntmaster9000 13y ago
Gender != sex.
- Tohhou 13y ago
  Gender is the grammar layer above sex. Sex informs gender. Gender is not a purely social construct out of nowhere. In English, there is the ternary, but it is defined as without the male/female. People generally don't like being called it though. Even if they have a special snowflake prounoun such as xer which they prefer the rest of the world can't know this and so it is fair and reasonable to call them what they look like they most identify out of the binary. Or we can just stop using pronouns altogether, even in industries largely of men, because we wouldn't want to make it seem like women can't take part in them (even when there is nothing stopping them). I'd be fine with that. Men don't exist anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender
  - gruntmaster9000 13y ago
    You are confusing grammatical gender with gender identity. It is also informed by sex, but that is only one influence.
    - Tohhou 13y ago
      >It is also informed by sex, but that is only one influence. Right, so it's not fair to say that gender != sex when gender is the grammatical expression of a sex within an environment's constraints. >You are confusing grammatical gender with gender identity. The grammar is the expression of masculine and feminine, which vary based on constraints, but still stick to the sexual binary. Going beyond that is special snowflake territory where people invent their own thing to be unique while expecting to be taken seriously. Complaining that people don't use your preferred pronoun is a perfect case for first world problems. My original comment you replied to "There are human genders other than male and female? Scientific or imaginary?" All else other than male (primary masculine) and female (primary feminine) are imaginary, and not based on biological reality. Those things do not merit being taken seriously no more than any religion or superstition. Male and female based sexes will always be re-expressed in very similar ways, as they have all over the world in varying civilizations, while others will never be the same. I'ts the same as religions or ideologies. It is complete fabrication of the mind. If people want to invent new identities fine, but white washing away him and her so that all of the other newly minted pronouns don't feel left out is ridiculous. >Hi, I'm Caramelkh. I'm demisexual, polyromantic, fat positive genderqueer (neutrois, femme presenting), sexual assault survivor (7 times), native American, Muslim neuroatypical with OCD, cotard delusion, trimethylaminuria, social phobias, depression, post traumatic stress, anxiety issues and I can't walk very far. On my blog I will NOT tolerate any form of oppressive bullshit language and I will not hesitate to call you out on it. My preferred pronouns are ze/zy/zo/zum. After reading my about me section above, you still know nothing about me other than that the long list of labels means I get to have experienced nearly every type of kyriarchy oppression and so I can call people out on anything and say it triggers and offends me. If people get bored, I invent new oppressions. I'm triggered by the color teal. Or better yet the new thing of people insisting to be called only by the pronoun brony.
      - gruntmaster9000 13y ago
        Gender identity is not at all the “grammatical expression of a sex within an environment’s constraints”. It is ‘a person's sense of self as a member of a particular gender.‘ — http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gender_identity http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gender_identity > All else other than male (primary masculine) and female (primary feminine) are imaginary, and not based on biological reality. Those things do not merit being taken seriously no more than any religion or superstition. Complete and utter bullshit, evidenced by how the ideas of “masculine” and “feminine” vary between and even within societies. These ideas are hardly the same “all over the world in varying civilizations”. Please, please read the Wikipedia article on Gender Identity, especially the section on non-western gender identities. It is such a different concept than classifying nouns. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#Non-Western_gender_identities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#Non-Western_gen... * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender Even grammatical gender is hardly consistent or strict with its being informed by sex. In Spanish, a man’s shirt would still be “la camisa”, a feminine noun. A female cheetah would still be called “el guepardo”. This insistence on adhering to biological sex — which itself isn’t even always binary — as a strict basis for gender makes no sense.