5 ms·

> The Daily Mail has to be one of the most repugnant media organizations Hm, I don't know. I sort of respect them, in a way. In some ways I think of them as th

by enko 13y ago

> The Daily Mail has to be one of the most repugnant media organizations Hm, I don't know. I sort of respect them, in a way. In some ways I think of them as the authentic voice of the impotent lower middle classes, lashing out at everything around them, greedy, cynical, childish and shallow, blaming others, ever seeking some outraged scandal to distract them from their otherwise mundane lives. Hate the Mail if you will, but you're basically hating their audience too. I don't like the Mail, but at least they're independent, seemingly serving no-one's agenda but their own. Murdoch is much worse, in my opinion.

hipsters_unite 13y ago
I hate the Mail because it encourages the worst in its audience. I have to believe that if the people that read it and I could reach a compromise if we weren't being so polarized by their reading material. Being "greedy, cynical, childish and shallow, blaming others" are all vices at the end of the day (FYI despite the tone of my comment here, I'm actually not religious). I agree totally that Murdoch is worse, but I think the Mail does hold more sway in a vocal area of the population with political power. The fact that they never acknowledge their hypocrisy or the damage they do I think is also offensive on an intellectual level that the Sun et al never quite reach as they're so cartoon-like.
- enko 13y ago
  I agree with everything you wrote. But the problem is, what can anyone do to fix it? I mean it's easy to come up with a plan to "fix" Murdoch. Simply tighten media ownership rules, so that one family or organisation can't own more than a certain small percentage of media. And I take your point that the Sun is pretty clownish in the UK, but in Australia they're far more insidious. (¶) But how do you fix the Mail? They're like this perfect endgame of free press. There's no big conspiracy; they're simply the answer to the question: "what does the angry disenfranchised demographic want to read about?". And while I lament the means by which said class seeks to assuage its anger, I do sympathise that they have a lot to be angry about. All this is why I find it hard to wrestle with the question of the Mail. I want to hate them, but some part of me holds back, because I feel that's too close to simple class discrimination, and because I can't shake the feeling that they're the symptom, not the cause, of society's ills. (¶) Check out the Murdoch press's outrageous bias in the recent Australian election: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/daily-telegraph-election-australia http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/daily-t...
oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
As a fully paid-up member of the impotent lower middle class, and a fervent opponent of pretty much everything the daily mail stands for, I resent that implication! Maybe the core audience of the daily mail IS lower middle class, but only the segment of the lower middle class that is intolerant and reactionary.
- enko 13y ago
  Yeah, I shouldn't have really worded it like that. It's difficult making characterisations and I went a bit too far. I do believe, however, that there's a segment of the middle classes who have a lot of dissatisfaction with their general lot, and the Mail is a way for them to vicariously lash out at "the system", johnny foreigner, the rich, the paedophiles, and all of those other easy targets. I'm going to leave what I wrote as is and reap what I sow, but regret putting it in such a nasty tone now. Sorry!
vixen99 13y ago
Is HN the place for this kind of witless snobby sneering unsupported diatribe?
- nopeavi 13y ago
  That hardly qualifies as a 'diatribe.' Also, no need to get so defensive, their comments against the Mail weren't directed at you personally. While I'm offering advice, thicker skin is helpful when on the interwebs.
vixen99 13y ago
Perhaps Reddit would be a better venue for you to get this sneering unsupported diatribe off your chest. Says much more about you than the Mail.
jbigelow76 13y ago
>I think of them as the authentic voice of the impotent lower middle classes, lashing out at everything around them, greedy, cynical, childish and shallow, blaming others... Odd, "greedy, cynical, childish and shallow, blaming others" sounds like an accurate representation of a large chunk of the elites and 1 percerters, it must be a species thing.
- enko 13y ago
  Perhaps that's true, but you can be sure they're not getting their fix in the Mail, which regularly takes ferocious swipes at that element of society. Which is another reason I have a kind of grudging respect for them. You'll never read a word against the 1-percenters in the Murdoch press.

by enko 13y ago

hipsters_unite 13y ago

I hate the Mail because it encourages the worst in its audience. I have to believe that if the people that read it and I could reach a compromise if we weren't being so polarized by their reading material. Being "greedy, cynical, childish and shallow, blaming others" are all vices at the end of the day (FYI despite the tone of my comment here, I'm actually not religious). I agree totally that Murdoch is worse, but I think the Mail does hold more sway in a vocal area of the population with political power. The fact that they never acknowledge their hypocrisy or the damage they do I think is also offensive on an intellectual level that the Sun et al never quite reach as they're so cartoon-like.

enko 13y ago
I agree with everything you wrote. But the problem is, what can anyone do to fix it? I mean it's easy to come up with a plan to "fix" Murdoch. Simply tighten media ownership rules, so that one family or organisation can't own more than a certain small percentage of media. And I take your point that the Sun is pretty clownish in the UK, but in Australia they're far more insidious. (¶) But how do you fix the Mail? They're like this perfect endgame of free press. There's no big conspiracy; they're simply the answer to the question: "what does the angry disenfranchised demographic want to read about?". And while I lament the means by which said class seeks to assuage its anger, I do sympathise that they have a lot to be angry about. All this is why I find it hard to wrestle with the question of the Mail. I want to hate them, but some part of me holds back, because I feel that's too close to simple class discrimination, and because I can't shake the feeling that they're the symptom, not the cause, of society's ills. (¶) Check out the Murdoch press's outrageous bias in the recent Australian election: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/daily-telegraph-election-australia http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/05/daily-t...

oneeyedpigeon 13y ago

As a fully paid-up member of the impotent lower middle class, and a fervent opponent of pretty much everything the daily mail stands for, I resent that implication! Maybe the core audience of the daily mail IS lower middle class, but only the segment of the lower middle class that is intolerant and reactionary.

enko 13y ago
Yeah, I shouldn't have really worded it like that. It's difficult making characterisations and I went a bit too far. I do believe, however, that there's a segment of the middle classes who have a lot of dissatisfaction with their general lot, and the Mail is a way for them to vicariously lash out at "the system", johnny foreigner, the rich, the paedophiles, and all of those other easy targets. I'm going to leave what I wrote as is and reap what I sow, but regret putting it in such a nasty tone now. Sorry!

vixen99 13y ago

Is HN the place for this kind of witless snobby sneering unsupported diatribe?

nopeavi 13y ago
That hardly qualifies as a 'diatribe.' Also, no need to get so defensive, their comments against the Mail weren't directed at you personally. While I'm offering advice, thicker skin is helpful when on the interwebs.

vixen99 13y ago

Perhaps Reddit would be a better venue for you to get this sneering unsupported diatribe off your chest. Says much more about you than the Mail.

jbigelow76 13y ago

>I think of them as the authentic voice of the impotent lower middle classes, lashing out at everything around them, greedy, cynical, childish and shallow, blaming others... Odd, "greedy, cynical, childish and shallow, blaming others" sounds like an accurate representation of a large chunk of the elites and 1 percerters, it must be a species thing.

enko 13y ago
Perhaps that's true, but you can be sure they're not getting their fix in the Mail, which regularly takes ferocious swipes at that element of society. Which is another reason I have a kind of grudging respect for them. You'll never read a word against the 1-percenters in the Murdoch press.