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I don't understand how using all your abilities to win is cheating? I think that is saying smart kids cheat on test because they are smart.

jasonlotito 13y ago
Cheating in rock-paper-scissors is changing your throw when you see what the other person is throwing. I can win every time if I see what you are throwing and can change my throw to beat it. However, if we are okay with using all your abilities to win and not count that as cheating, I can guarantee I win every time against that robot. I'd just remove the power source.
- raybeorn 13y ago
  Winning is winning, no matter how you do it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru#James_T._Kirk.27s_test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru#James_T._Kirk.27...
  - sp332 13y ago
    At that point, you're not even playing the same game, so how can you claim you've won?
    - ISL 13y ago
      Because you become Captain of the Starship Enterprise? Or, because you've achieved the mission goals?
      - sp332 13y ago
        Kirk only got a commendation for that. He had to work for a long time after the Kobayashi Maru incident to get the Enterprise. You're begging the question. Achieving the same goals with different rules is a different game. Using stilts and a machine gun to get a ball in a hoop is not basketball.
        ISL 13y ago
        Yes, it's not a valid solution to the game of basketball, but it is a valid solution to the "get a ball in a hoop" game. I don't think the Kobayashi Maru test rules said anything about "don't try to break the game". Success can result from relaxing an irrelevant requirement.
        sp332 13y ago
        It's not irrelevant if it's the difference between winning and losing. Since you're already rewriting the scenario, why not just declare yourself the winner from the start? It would save a lot of effort.
        ISL 13y ago
        Because the people aboard the Kobayashi Maru might live?
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    If a win is defined as conditions A + B + C, and you only complete A and C, can you win?
- Steko 13y ago
  "I can guarantee I win every time against that robot. I'd just remove the power source." Version 3 turns off the human crew's life support if you try and remove it's power source. Version 4 uses time travel to kill your parents.
- biot 13y ago
  Or suggest what the other person should do, as Derren Brown does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf82QOqJTt8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf82QOqJTt8
rtkwe 13y ago
It's cheating because the decision is supposed to be simultaneously. You're not supposed to react to the opponent's choice as they're displaying it.
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
If we played Rock Paper Scissors, and every round I waited until you had thrown and then threw whatever countered your throw, would you be okay with that? That's exactly what this robot is doing, only faster. That's not really a bad thing, of course, because it's just a bit of fun and an interesting technical achievement. But as far as RPS goes, it's indisputably cheating.
TallGuyShort 13y ago
No it's like saying kids cheat on a test because they look at somebody else's test and didn't get caught. They're certainly able to do it and nobody stopped them, right?

jasonlotito 13y ago

Cheating in rock-paper-scissors is changing your throw when you see what the other person is throwing. I can win every time if I see what you are throwing and can change my throw to beat it. However, if we are okay with using all your abilities to win and not count that as cheating, I can guarantee I win every time against that robot. I'd just remove the power source.

raybeorn 13y ago
Winning is winning, no matter how you do it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru#James_T._Kirk.27s_test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru#James_T._Kirk.27...
- sp332 13y ago
  At that point, you're not even playing the same game, so how can you claim you've won?
  - ISL 13y ago
    Because you become Captain of the Starship Enterprise? Or, because you've achieved the mission goals?
    - sp332 13y ago
      Kirk only got a commendation for that. He had to work for a long time after the Kobayashi Maru incident to get the Enterprise. You're begging the question. Achieving the same goals with different rules is a different game. Using stilts and a machine gun to get a ball in a hoop is not basketball.
      - ISL 13y ago
        Yes, it's not a valid solution to the game of basketball, but it is a valid solution to the "get a ball in a hoop" game. I don't think the Kobayashi Maru test rules said anything about "don't try to break the game". Success can result from relaxing an irrelevant requirement.
        sp332 13y ago
        It's not irrelevant if it's the difference between winning and losing. Since you're already rewriting the scenario, why not just declare yourself the winner from the start? It would save a lot of effort.
        ISL 13y ago
        Because the people aboard the Kobayashi Maru might live?
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  If a win is defined as conditions A + B + C, and you only complete A and C, can you win?
Steko 13y ago
"I can guarantee I win every time against that robot. I'd just remove the power source." Version 3 turns off the human crew's life support if you try and remove it's power source. Version 4 uses time travel to kill your parents.
biot 13y ago
Or suggest what the other person should do, as Derren Brown does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf82QOqJTt8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf82QOqJTt8

rtkwe 13y ago

It's cheating because the decision is supposed to be simultaneously. You're not supposed to react to the opponent's choice as they're displaying it.

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

If we played Rock Paper Scissors, and every round I waited until you had thrown and then threw whatever countered your throw, would you be okay with that? That's exactly what this robot is doing, only faster. That's not really a bad thing, of course, because it's just a bit of fun and an interesting technical achievement. But as far as RPS goes, it's indisputably cheating.

TallGuyShort 13y ago

No it's like saying kids cheat on a test because they look at somebody else's test and didn't get caught. They're certainly able to do it and nobody stopped them, right?