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I read the whole article and do not agree. Here in Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal. Yes, you have to be clean, presentable, but

I read the whole article and do not agree. Here in Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal. Yes, you have to be clean, presentable, but that's it. After that you need the skills, talent, knowledge and aptitude to perform your job. And you need that everyday, to keep your job, in this hyper-competitive environment. I was a poor starving immigrant student at one point. I did fine without even mildly expensive clothes, shoes or cars. I've also hired poor resource-less college kids. Anecdotal, but the best workers (in our technical field) were the ones who cared the least about appearances.

sprizzle 13y ago
I agree with you for the most part, but I think the point the author's trying to make is that "poor" people may not see it that way; instead, to them, lavish riches create a sense of belonging.
- ChikkaChiChi 13y ago
  Partially right. We live in a culture where Fergie can get up and talk about living a jet set mentality and there are songs on the radio today talking about Maybachs, etc. Couple that with a lack of education on financial well being, and suddenly you have people making unwise choices.
semiel 13y ago
Tech is a weird culture, where the status symbols are totally different. Knowing weird programming languages, having open source contributions, and appreciating nerdy humor are all more important than clothing choice. (Though someone who accidentally wears something too "fancy" might not get taken seriously.) But for pretty much anything other than "getting a programming job", this essay is pretty much spot on.
slg 13y ago
Silicon Valley is still somewhat an exception to the rule about appearances. In what other area do the rich people dress exactly like the poorest? Remember the hubbub when Zuckerberg wore a hoodie to a meeting regarding the Facebook IPO. That might be laughed off in Silicon Valley but I know many people in other parts of the country that would view it as insulting for someone to show up to a business meeting wearing something like that.
- Qom 13y ago
  What's insulting here is that Zuck is trying to keep the "hoodie-guy" image despite his unimaginable wealth. You can't have the cake and eat it.
  - tghw 13y ago
    I'm sorry, are you saying Zuck should be required to dress his socioeconomic class?
    - Qom 13y ago
      No. I just think it's posturing on his part. He's pretending to be something he's not, so that people see the friendly brogrammer instead of the ambitious "They trust me — dumb fucks" CEO who disregards privacy.
      - swamp40 13y ago
        Don't you think that maybe it's the other 99.9% of people that are "posturing"? Some people just rebel against the "norm" of using clothing to represent their socioeconomic status - money or no money.
        balabaster 13y ago
        Some people rebel just because "f___ you, who are you to tell me what I can and can't do?" It has nothing to do with anything else.
        Qom 13y ago
        This isn't rebellion (honestly that term is used WAY too much). It's just Zuck doing a little song and dance.
      - thedufer 13y ago
        Call me crazy, but maybe he wears hoodies _because they're comfortable_. That's why I do it, and I don't see how making a bunch of money would have any effect on that.
incision 13y ago
>"I read the whole article and do not agree. Here is Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal." Qualifying "do not agree" with anecdotal experience in one small area dominated by one industry is a bit of a stretch don't you think?
thisAintNoGame 13y ago
I think its important to understand that Silicon Valley practices are not representative of societal trends. The examples the author uses are about going to a welfare office and interviewing for an administrative position at a cosmetology school. Just because one trend doesn't exist amongst a class of wealthy people in San Francisco doesn't mean it doesn't hold elsewhere. So its fine to disagree with this article but I dont think that the experiences in the current tech age in Silicon Valley do anything to invalidate her experiences at welfare offices in the Mississippi delta.
potatolicious 13y ago
Disagree entirely. Silicon Valley is just as superficial as the rest of them, except the points your'e being judged from are a somewhat different set from mainstream society. In the Valley tech scene (and all tech scenes everywhere) the respect we afford people is heavily influenced by a lot of cultural markers. Access to newfangled gadgetry, neighborhoods we live in, even freaking toe shoes. Don't have the spare time or money to hobnob with other startup types at an expensive trendy bar? Whoops. We may hire you without these signals, we may be happy with your work. But all else being equal someone as good as you, who presents the correct cultural markers, is going to be afforded a lot more respect and leeway. The Silicon Valley "meritocracy" is largely a myth. The subculture rejects a lot of mainstream ways of brutally judging people, which is often interpreted as our culture being less judgmental. On the contrary, we simply have formed different ways of brutally judging people. Appearance is everything, tech or otherwise. Hell, just look at the threads on hiring every time they show up on HN. Lots of people insisting that a candidate must have a fleshed out Github account to qualify - as if activity on Github is the same thing as programming aptitude. Lots of people insisting that side projects are necessary, or participation in open source - as if those things indicate or guarantee aptitude. The brutal ageism we suffer from in this industry is also an indication of just how superficially judgmental we are.
- eropple 13y ago
  I think your post hits the mark pretty well--I don't live in the Valley, hopefully never will, but the cultural markers are similar in the Boston area. The one quibble is that I do ask for a Github account and I don't think it's the same sort of marker. It's a skill-based metric first[1], a cultural one a very distant second. Toe shoes don't provide a risk-mitigation signal. A Github profile does: it lets me see what you do. It's not unlike publishing in academia--it gives me a window into what you do, making it easier for me to hire the right person because I know what I'm getting. And I'd rather not hire than hire the wrong person, because hiring the wrong person hurts everyone. [1] - Yes, it (probably) implies you have side projects and that you're writing open source. You're right about that. But the primary reason I want to see a Github profile is to make sure you can code.
- MarkPNeyer 13y ago
zasz 13y ago
That's great, but did you notice that the author was talking about completely different than engineers? Surely you've noticed that even within the Valley the sales and marketing people dress up better?

sprizzle 13y ago

I agree with you for the most part, but I think the point the author's trying to make is that "poor" people may not see it that way; instead, to them, lavish riches create a sense of belonging.

ChikkaChiChi 13y ago
Partially right. We live in a culture where Fergie can get up and talk about living a jet set mentality and there are songs on the radio today talking about Maybachs, etc. Couple that with a lack of education on financial well being, and suddenly you have people making unwise choices.

semiel 13y ago

Tech is a weird culture, where the status symbols are totally different. Knowing weird programming languages, having open source contributions, and appreciating nerdy humor are all more important than clothing choice. (Though someone who accidentally wears something too "fancy" might not get taken seriously.) But for pretty much anything other than "getting a programming job", this essay is pretty much spot on.

slg 13y ago

Silicon Valley is still somewhat an exception to the rule about appearances. In what other area do the rich people dress exactly like the poorest? Remember the hubbub when Zuckerberg wore a hoodie to a meeting regarding the Facebook IPO. That might be laughed off in Silicon Valley but I know many people in other parts of the country that would view it as insulting for someone to show up to a business meeting wearing something like that.

Qom 13y ago
What's insulting here is that Zuck is trying to keep the "hoodie-guy" image despite his unimaginable wealth. You can't have the cake and eat it.
- tghw 13y ago
  I'm sorry, are you saying Zuck should be required to dress his socioeconomic class?
  - Qom 13y ago
    No. I just think it's posturing on his part. He's pretending to be something he's not, so that people see the friendly brogrammer instead of the ambitious "They trust me — dumb fucks" CEO who disregards privacy.
    - swamp40 13y ago
      Don't you think that maybe it's the other 99.9% of people that are "posturing"? Some people just rebel against the "norm" of using clothing to represent their socioeconomic status - money or no money.
      - balabaster 13y ago
        Some people rebel just because "f___ you, who are you to tell me what I can and can't do?" It has nothing to do with anything else.
      - Qom 13y ago
        This isn't rebellion (honestly that term is used WAY too much). It's just Zuck doing a little song and dance.
    - thedufer 13y ago
      Call me crazy, but maybe he wears hoodies _because they're comfortable_. That's why I do it, and I don't see how making a bunch of money would have any effect on that.

incision 13y ago

>"I read the whole article and do not agree. Here is Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal." Qualifying "do not agree" with anecdotal experience in one small area dominated by one industry is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

thisAintNoGame 13y ago

I think its important to understand that Silicon Valley practices are not representative of societal trends. The examples the author uses are about going to a welfare office and interviewing for an administrative position at a cosmetology school. Just because one trend doesn't exist amongst a class of wealthy people in San Francisco doesn't mean it doesn't hold elsewhere. So its fine to disagree with this article but I dont think that the experiences in the current tech age in Silicon Valley do anything to invalidate her experiences at welfare offices in the Mississippi delta.

potatolicious 13y ago

Disagree entirely. Silicon Valley is just as superficial as the rest of them, except the points your'e being judged from are a somewhat different set from mainstream society. In the Valley tech scene (and all tech scenes everywhere) the respect we afford people is heavily influenced by a lot of cultural markers. Access to newfangled gadgetry, neighborhoods we live in, even freaking toe shoes. Don't have the spare time or money to hobnob with other startup types at an expensive trendy bar? Whoops. We may hire you without these signals, we may be happy with your work. But all else being equal someone as good as you, who presents the correct cultural markers, is going to be afforded a lot more respect and leeway. The Silicon Valley "meritocracy" is largely a myth. The subculture rejects a lot of mainstream ways of brutally judging people, which is often interpreted as our culture being less judgmental. On the contrary, we simply have formed different ways of brutally judging people. Appearance is everything, tech or otherwise. Hell, just look at the threads on hiring every time they show up on HN. Lots of people insisting that a candidate must have a fleshed out Github account to qualify - as if activity on Github is the same thing as programming aptitude. Lots of people insisting that side projects are necessary, or participation in open source - as if those things indicate or guarantee aptitude. The brutal ageism we suffer from in this industry is also an indication of just how superficially judgmental we are.

eropple 13y ago
I think your post hits the mark pretty well--I don't live in the Valley, hopefully never will, but the cultural markers are similar in the Boston area. The one quibble is that I do ask for a Github account and I don't think it's the same sort of marker. It's a skill-based metric first[1], a cultural one a very distant second. Toe shoes don't provide a risk-mitigation signal. A Github profile does: it lets me see what you do. It's not unlike publishing in academia--it gives me a window into what you do, making it easier for me to hire the right person because I know what I'm getting. And I'd rather not hire than hire the wrong person, because hiring the wrong person hurts everyone. [1] - Yes, it (probably) implies you have side projects and that you're writing open source. You're right about that. But the primary reason I want to see a Github profile is to make sure you can code.
MarkPNeyer 13y ago

zasz 13y ago

That's great, but did you notice that the author was talking about completely different than engineers? Surely you've noticed that even within the Valley the sales and marketing people dress up better?