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Facebook and Google make money selling your personal data, Apple makes money selling hardware.

selmnoo 13y ago
That is a hasty oversimplification. Apple stands to make money selling your personal data just like Facebook and Google. And, were it true that Apple makes money only selling hardware, it would not feel the need to purposely confuse an iPhone user into being tracked by using dirty language tricks.
- atlanticus 13y ago
  Apple may make some minuscule amount. Facebook and Google cannot survive without selling your personal data. It is beyond ethics, it is their entire business plan. If it makes you feel better to believe Apple is just as bad with your data go ahead.
jljljl 13y ago
Yes that's very true and perceptive. It is also irrelevant to the parent comment.
- 001sky 13y ago
  It goes to the question of motive, which is relevant to the discussion, generally.
  - jljljl 13y ago
    No, not really, because whatever their current "motive" is they are using a dark pattern for their tracking opt-out.
    - atlanticus 13y ago
      Is that really a dark pattern. If Limit Tracking is On then theoretically your tracking is limited, no? Also Apple let's you get a new UDID if you want to wipe all data. Not the most lucrative way to handle advertising data. My biggest problem with tailored adverts is the uncanny valley. The more accurate they are the more it creeps me out.
      - jljljl 13y ago
        I think you misunderstand dark pattern here. If you sit and think about it for a while, then yes, it makes perfect sense. But the point of a dark pattern is to give quick, hurried users a misconception of what the choice is. The non-dark pattern here is to say "Ad Tracking - On/Off". http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-inside-the-interfaces-designed-to-trick-you http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-insi... BTW, Google lets you opt out of Interest Based Advertising: https://support.google.com/ads/answer/2662922?hl=en https://support.google.com/ads/answer/2662922?hl=en
nwh 13y ago
http://advertising.apple.com/ http://advertising.apple.com/ Apple sell your location data to advertising companies too.
dcsommer 13y ago
Can't speak for Google, but Facebook certainly doesn't sell personal data. Facebook internally uses personal data to show targeted advertisements. Big difference.
- disgruntledphd2 13y ago
  Nor does Google. Twitter, however, does. That being said, Twitter is default public and they've been really open about it since day one. Note: I have no special knowledge of Google, so maybe they do. Given that it would be really dumb to do so and lie about it, I believe that they do not.
- seiji 13y ago
  certainly doesn't sell personal data. It just sells access to use the data, not to know what the data is. Their proposition is: "Give us $50 and you can target 26 year old iPhone users who go to Stanford and have posted about bratwurst in the past six hours." You're paying to use the data they've collected about their users. If they didn't sell access to use personal data, we'd be back to flat banner ads with no retargeting or privacy invading doubleclick social strata pinning.
judk 13y ago
Ads are not personal data. Google sells impressions, not details. FB too. Your supermarket sells your data to randkme aggregator companies. Google and FB hoard personal data.

That is a hasty oversimplification. Apple stands to make money selling your personal data just like Facebook and Google. And, were it true that Apple makes money only selling hardware, it would not feel the need to purposely confuse an iPhone user into being tracked by using dirty language tricks.

atlanticus 13y ago
Apple may make some minuscule amount. Facebook and Google cannot survive without selling your personal data. It is beyond ethics, it is their entire business plan. If it makes you feel better to believe Apple is just as bad with your data go ahead.

jljljl 13y ago

Yes that's very true and perceptive. It is also irrelevant to the parent comment.

001sky 13y ago
It goes to the question of motive, which is relevant to the discussion, generally.
- jljljl 13y ago
  No, not really, because whatever their current "motive" is they are using a dark pattern for their tracking opt-out.
  - atlanticus 13y ago
    Is that really a dark pattern. If Limit Tracking is On then theoretically your tracking is limited, no? Also Apple let's you get a new UDID if you want to wipe all data. Not the most lucrative way to handle advertising data. My biggest problem with tailored adverts is the uncanny valley. The more accurate they are the more it creeps me out.
    - jljljl 13y ago
      I think you misunderstand dark pattern here. If you sit and think about it for a while, then yes, it makes perfect sense. But the point of a dark pattern is to give quick, hurried users a misconception of what the choice is. The non-dark pattern here is to say "Ad Tracking - On/Off". http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-inside-the-interfaces-designed-to-trick-you http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/29/4640308/dark-patterns-insi... BTW, Google lets you opt out of Interest Based Advertising: https://support.google.com/ads/answer/2662922?hl=en https://support.google.com/ads/answer/2662922?hl=en

nwh 13y ago

http://advertising.apple.com/ http://advertising.apple.com/ Apple sell your location data to advertising companies too.

dcsommer 13y ago

Can't speak for Google, but Facebook certainly doesn't sell personal data. Facebook internally uses personal data to show targeted advertisements. Big difference.

disgruntledphd2 13y ago
Nor does Google. Twitter, however, does. That being said, Twitter is default public and they've been really open about it since day one. Note: I have no special knowledge of Google, so maybe they do. Given that it would be really dumb to do so and lie about it, I believe that they do not.
seiji 13y ago
certainly doesn't sell personal data. It just sells access to use the data, not to know what the data is. Their proposition is: "Give us $50 and you can target 26 year old iPhone users who go to Stanford and have posted about bratwurst in the past six hours." You're paying to use the data they've collected about their users. If they didn't sell access to use personal data, we'd be back to flat banner ads with no retargeting or privacy invading doubleclick social strata pinning.

judk 13y ago

Ads are not personal data. Google sells impressions, not details. FB too. Your supermarket sells your data to randkme aggregator companies. Google and FB hoard personal data.